Do term time only CMs usually ask for paid holiday? And how does notice work

[Dancingwitch]

My 5yo DD starts with a CM next week for wraparound care and I am just going through the paperwork. It is a standard PACEY contract. The CM only works during term time and her contract states that she gets 4 weeks paid annual leave per year. How does this work? She herself has school age children so won't be taking time off during term time which is the only time she offers services. Will I just get a invoice for an extra four weeks at some point?
Also, how does notice work. She requires 8 weeks notice but it says that notice can't be given during a time when the CM doesn't work, which, in this case, excludes the school holidays. I know DD will be going to the CM for the rest of the school year but don't know what will happen in September. By my maths, if I don't give notice by about the second week of the summer term, I'll have to pay her for the autumn term as May half term week and the six week summer holidays can't be included. Is this usual?
I'd just like to make it clear that, if she worked the full year, I would fully expect to pay her for her annual leave and, whether she works the full year or term time only, fully expect to pay her when DD is ill or absent for some reason and so can't use the service the CM is offering as the service is still being offered.
I'm not sure if she's thought this through and realised that, as she works term time only, the usual terms may not apply.

There are no 'usual' terms, as everyone has different arrangements. Is her paid holiday only during school holidays, or does she take time off during term time? (Maybe taking her dc out of school).

You are right about the notice period. If you gave notice at the end of summer term, you could potentially pay for 8 weeks you don't need.

The only person who can really answer your questions is your cm.

I'd ask for a 4 week notice period as that's what most cm ask for. As for the paid holiday this is not something I would agree to pay as she is already not working any of the school holidays how much time off does she want??

Everyone does things differently and there is no right or wrong to how much people charge for holidays or how much holiday they take - what you need to look at is the whole package, whether it meets your needs, and whether the total cost is acceptable and affordable to you. I think people get too hung up on details like whether one provider takes/allows one more week leave or charges 25p more an hour. When you compare annual costs you can get some surprising answers.

If she is only taking four weeks holiday as paid of the thirteen or so school holiday weeks, that sounds reasonable to me (assuming you want term time only care). A lot of childminders and nurseries charge year round or only have say four weeks unpaid, or charge half fees for holidays. But you do need to be clear whether those four weeks paid leave will be the first four weeks she takes, or whether (as I would imagine) she will spread the total cost of the four weeks of leave over the year so that it is immaterial precisely which four weeks are the paid ones. You also need to double check that she does intend to restrict her holiday to outside term time.

As for notice, it is completely usual (but not without exception) for childminders who offer term time only contracts to also expect notice periods to be "served" in term time. So if you gave notice part way through the summer term you might have to pay for a bit of the autumn term (not the entire term). She obviously feels she needs plenty of notice to recruit a replacement if you have a change of plan - and you may have given her the impression that a change of plan is likely. It is generally true to say that there are a lot of parents looking around May and June for childcare from September, so by "encouraging" you to give notice in good time, she will stand a much better chance of filling the place you vacate. But don't forget that the notice period is reciprocated and also protects you, so that she would have to give you notice before half term if she decided she did not want to continue to care for your child from September.

Sounds a bit odd to me! my cm doesn't charge for holidays she chooses to take (and neither did any of the 20 or so I contacted) but charges 50% for holidays I take outside of those. she also charges 50% fee for retention for any child who is term time only. notice period is 4 weeks but I believe that is stipulated by our local council as a maximum.

personally I would be finding a different childminder

I have a term time only childminder. She doesn't take any additional holidays and I don't pay any extras. Ie. I only pay for the days my children are there, which is all in term time.

As mentioned before, look at the overall cost, as it may be the same, regardless of paid holidays. If CMs have a policy of paid holidays and long notice periods, there's nothing wrong with that. Just check you are happy with the overall arrangement.

I have 4 weeks notice and unpaid holidays, but wouldn't take on a child term time only without charging for the full year

Wheresthelight - exactly my point! Fifty percent for thirteen holiday weeks is a lot more than one hundred percent for four weeks. The local councul can only stipulate terms if they are paying, and even then the childminder wouldn't have to accept those terms.

Sounds like a poorly thought through contract but there may be some inadvertent mistakes. I would not be paying for the holiday for a term time only cm who makes it clear she isn't open during the school holidays and if she is taking time off during the school year too it doesn't sound to me like a very compelling form if childcare but only u can judge that based in your circs. The notice period is also an issue. Also she is self employed and make sure she isn't trying to do something like accrue holiday with you if you manage to agree a specific term for the contract to address the notice period issue.

As Jinxxx has said. If it's a choice of term time only plus four weeks holiday, or pay for a full time space, then this might be a bargain. There are perfectly good reasons for putting 8 weeks notice on a term time only contract as well.

Thanks for all of your thoughts. I realise that there is no "usual" as CM are self employed & determine their own terms. I also agree with looking at the overall cost. However, it is useful to see what other people have done/experienced.
In this circumstance, I don't think it would be a case of paying for four weeks in full versus paying a retainer for 13 weeks as the CM just doesn't offer a service for the school holidays, indeed, she isn't even in the country.
I still can't quite decide whether it is simply poorly thought out and I won't raise it and will just see what happens (having factored in the worst case scenario in terms of cost) or ask her about it...

I'm not suggesting that this CM would charge you for the full 13 weeks, but that she might be the only one that doesn't, so it is worth looking at.

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that this particular CM would offer to charge you a retainer to hold a place over the holidays. She has already said, apparently, that she will charge for four weeks holiday but nothing for the rest. The point I was trying to get across is that paying HER for four weeks holiday might leave you better off than paying SOMEONE ELSE a fifty percent retainer for 13 weeks holiday. What the first CM does or doesn't do in the holidays is completely immaterial as she isn't proposing to charge you a retainer anyway.

...and the contract is only poorly thought out if its effect is contrary to her objectives. If she only wants to be paid for four weeks holiday, doesn't want to be paid a retainer, but does require and is willing to offer a lengthy notice period, how is that poorly thought out?

Cross-posted HSMM - but you put it much more succinctly!

I am a term time childminder. I don't charge anything during the 13 weeks the schools are off. I am not open. This childminder seems to want you to pay for 4 weeks out of those 13. I would be amazed if she is taking 4 weeks holidays during term time.

8 weeks notice I think as a childminder is reasonable for term time only. I stupidly have only stipulated 4 weeks notice and not put in the contract that it can only be given during term time. I will be wiser with any future contracts between myself and parents.

Tricky - if you use the PACEY contract then it says that notice can't be given during periods when you're not working. This is in the small print at the end.

I think the see how it goes is not a good way to start...Understand what she is offering.

I so offer Term time and yearly contracts. I do take 4 weeks holiday which is usually during school holiday.however I do not charge for these and my Term time contracts only pay for any extra care during holidays as I prefer it to be quieter,

Thanks Dancing - I am in SCotland so don't use the pacey contracts. Though there maybe something in the small print on the ones I get from SCMA. People not reading contracts properly really annoy me