AIBU - Childcare/Apprenticeship

[Greenkit]

My DD (18) has completed level 1 and level 2 childcare qualifications in collage and since end Nov 2014 she has been doing a level 3 apprenticeship. The apprenticeship is with a lady who is looking after children within her own home (childcare/nanny), at the moment most of the children are her family or friends and her daughter. DD does this along with another girl whom she met at college, who is 19, I will call her A.

So A and DD are contracted to work 30hours per week and get the minimum wage, which is £2.73 and is made up to £3.00 by the boss. The placement is across the other side of town and takes two buses and 2 hours to travel there and the same for the return journey. (May not be relevant, but didn’t want to drip feed)

They don’t have set times to work and their contract (which DD signed before I had a chance to look at it) states they can be asked to work 30 hours in any 24/7; they both attend college on a Wednesday.

My AIBU is the following:

1. As I said there are no timetables, so DD arrives at 9am and then doesn’t find out what time she is leaving until the afternoon or when the boss gets back. Sometimes she is told she will be leaving at 5pm (like last night) but wasn’t released until 7pm. It’s pretty much like this every day.

2. If they work extra hours, then the boss tells them what time they can have off, they don’t get to choose.

3. DD and A are left on their own most of the time, I have no idea if this is correct or if the boss should be there, how does training happen if they are on their own?

4. DD and A have been left in sole charge of 5 children under the age of 3yrs, one a baby of 7months. Again is this allowed?

5. There was an incident where one of the children put a small bead up its nose, DD had no contact details for the parents, no list of allergies or medication, so had to ring the boss who came back and took child to hospital.

6. DD and A have a DBS certificate which is still in date from when they were at collage, but hasn’t been transferred or they haven’t applied for a new one...Boss says she will ‘get round to it’ but expects DD and A to travel all the way over to her house for an hour to fill out the forms, when they could do it in work time.

7. Should the college have seen the ‘contract’ and made sure it was fair, how much do the college get involved in that side of things?

College is a Wednesday from 9am until 4pm and DD told me this morning that the boss wants them to come to her after college, god knows when she is expected to eat, sleep and get her collage work done. She basically burst in to tears last night and looked so tired.

I know it’s hard when starting out and doing an apprenticeship, but this woman seems to be treating them as skivvies and taking advantage of the fact they are young and just doing what she says...

So AIBU, and if I’m not, what the hell do I tell DD to say? How can I help her?

Your dd should raise the matter with the college. I imagine that they are best placed to identify where their students are being taken advantage of and they have a vested interested in your dd completing her academic work.

I don't think this sounds right at all. Does she have a mentor/supervisor at the college that she can talk to? Could she ask for a different placement, perhaps in a nursery setting?

DD doesn't want to say anything, she's scared, she doesn't want me to say anything either!

She would like to stay in the childminder/nanny position rather than a nursery.

There is someone at college, I think I need to ring them, but having no idea if this is correct or not, im not sure what to say?

I'm a nanny

You say your daughter has a level 2 qualification so she is in fact qualified and I would imagine fine to be left with children alone. I did my level 2 in college then my level 3 while working in a nursery where I was left with children. This does need checking with the college though as it's been a long time since I was at college and rules change.

Why can't your daughter bring the dB's forms home to fill in? I can't see any reason she has to do them at work, all the boss needs to do is check I.D the bulk of it can be done at home.

I would give the college a ring. If your DD is unhappy I'm sure they will be able to find her another placement.

From a parent's perspective I wouldn't be happy with this, if it was my children they were looking after.
If the boss is supposed to be a childminder, not a nursery, then I would expect it to be her looking after my children with the help of the apprentices.
It sounds like the boss is hardly there? Where is she?

I think it's best for your daughter to speak to college, they'll know all the guildlines.

I'd also be tempted to speak to ofsted. If I was a parent with a baby there, I'd want to know how the place was being ran.

Thank you

I have just looked up on the gov.uk website, it says DD should be paid for her 30hours and training, so she should get paid for her college day, which she isn't being paid for.

I know chatterbox, I have told DD that. The boss is off most of the day and when she comes back they can leave.

Also she is going away soon and DD and A will be left with the children on their own completely.

Surely as she is doing it with a childminder then the childminder should be present at all times unless your daughter and A are registered with ofsted as childminder assistants and then only left for very short amounts of time. If the lady is caring for children in her home therefore a childminder from what you have posted I would say she is not complying with her ofsted registration, if the lady is caring for the children in their home (a nanny) then she doesn't have such guidelines to work too but I would guess wouldn't be paying them from her wages, so yes I think she is a childminder and going against her registration requirements and if found out could be de registered.

I assume you're in England. This sounds sooo wrong. It seems to be a childminder who they're doing the apprenticeship with. They should not be left in sole charge at any time. For them to be able to be left in sole charge they'd need new DBS, a EY2 form filled and sent off to Ofsted, up to date paediatric first aid ... after all that the childminder would receive suitability letter stating they're suitable to work with children the way they are (it seems they're cheap assistants). I'd ring Ofsted tbh as it's not fair on those little ones and the childminder is taking the P big way"

As you say the boss is looking after mostly friends and family and you cannot distinguish whether she is a childminder or nanny it doesn't suggest that she is formally registered with Ofsted and it sounds more like an informal arrangement so whilst your DD does hold the relevant qualifications to be left alone with the children she is not registered to be left alone with anyone's children in this scenario. I would be unhappy with her doing so if it was my child simply because I don't know her and I pay her boss!! And in terns of College, who is liable if a child seriously injures themselves and the boss has vanished!? How can they improve their practice without guidance?

I would ring the College and speak to somebody. This situation has an unbelievable amount wrong with it and your DD and her friend are being seriously taken advantage of.

Can you confirm what country you are in?

Seems a bit odd that trainees are being left unsupervised given it is a home based provider.

If she is a childminder taking on apprentices, then she should be with them all the time. The first thing your DD needs to establish is what sort of setting it is.

She's 18 though, so has she been registered as an assistant? This could change the rules as there are some circumstances when assistants can be left alone with the children. Not sure if you can be an employee and an apprentice at the same time though???

Sorry ... Meant to say ... She does need to check with the college as they need to know (for future students too)whether this is a suitable placement with legal childcare.

Ok, thank you for your replies, I will try and answer them as best I can.

• We are in England
• DD and A have relevant and up to date Paediatric first aid
• The boss is having children in her own home, but has certificates registering her as a nanny and a child-minder
• I don't know about the EY2 form, will ask DD when she gets in

This sounds so wrong. As the boss is childminder she is using your dd & A as assistants. In which case they are not allowed to be left in sole charge of the children for more than 2 hours in any one day. The boss should definitely NOT be going out for the day & leaving them to it. I would definitely be contacting the college & Ofsted as what is happening is distinctly wrong/illegal.
I understand that your daughter is worried about her apprenticeship but hopefully the college will be able to come up with an alternative placement/employer.

I am a childminder who works with my dh as my assistant and have had childcare students on placement in the past, if it wasn't for the fact that dh works with me I would have considered an apprentice to work with me as we are very busy, but have no more space for extra children so can't take on any more staff.

It doesn't matter if she had a certificate from ofsted registering her as a nanny that is only really for the benefit of the parents of children she looks after in their home so they can use childcare vouchers. In her home she is a childminder and as such needs to have your daughter and A registered with ofsted as her assistants and as per past posts can only leave them for short periods of time and with the parents of the children knowing and agreeing. Def needs checking out with college and if she says they haven't filled in any forms then a call to ofsted is needed to as she is breaking the terms of her registration.

Seems very strange and surely can't be legal - are parents are aware that the cm isn't there and two teenagers are looking after their children ??

The cm should be there at all times as an apprenticeship

Def speak to the college - who should slso have a copy of the contract

I have spoken to DD tonight, she says she and A haven't registered with OFSTED or updated their DBS and it something they are 'in the process' of doing.

They have a letter or something signed by parents saying they are happy DD and A are looking after the children alone??

The contract is awful, she basically owns them...I will find it tomorrow and post some of the things it states, im sure some break the law, like no paid holidays

I would contact ofsted and check Out this cm and what her policies are

Doesn't sound right to me
Your dd needs to speak to the college and find another placement
Or ring ofsted and ask for their advice
It worries me that the cm doesn'thave the iinterests of the children as her main focus
Where is the cm, is she nannying at the same time?
I manage a nursery and apprentices are never left unsupervised and all staff have to have up to date dbs before they are allowed unsupervised access
The bead up the nose incident is very worrying too, please tell dd to report this to college
This cm really needs removing from the colleges list of apprentice employers

It sounds wrong but it may not be- the CM could argue that your DD and A are nannies, in which case technically she isn't going anything wrong. The have DBS and level 2 qualifications so that's enough to be left alone. However I wouldn't be happy about this.

I also doubt the college will get too involved as this is an apprentiship and not an unpaid placement. The girls may have a member of staff as contact but with regards to contract arrangements that's down to them.

Call ofsted and seek advice from them...

The girls are not nannies as not looking after the children in the childrens own homes, and they are being paid by the cm not the children's parents so I don't see how she can argue that.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/childcare-register-requirements-childminders-and-home-childcarers
"Childminders and home childcarers must ensure that they
are present on the premises at all times when childcare is
being provided unless for a maximum of two hours per day
a childminding assistant is present and the parents of the
child have given their consent for the child to be left with
the childminding assistant."

So even if Ofsted (as you are in England) did have them down as Assistants, they could not be left alone with the children for long periods of time. Max is 2 hours per day (day being 2am-6pm, should timings be relevant).

"Childminders must ensure that any person having
unsupervised contact with children is suitable to be in
regular contact with children and an enhanced Disclosure
and Barring Service check has been obtained through
Ofsted in respect of that person"

If their current DBS check was not done through Ofsted, then the childminder is breach of the regulations by leaving them unsupervised without Ofsted having done the relevant checks.

"Childminders must provide, or secure the provision of,
any training which is necessary to ensure that all staff
have suitable skills and experience to care for children."

I would wonder what training is actually being offered. What is your DD gaining from having this particular placement? Are they needing to have experience with a particular age range of child which only this placement can offer (such as children 5-8)? Personally I would be looking for another placement, even a voluntary one - does your DD and her friend really need payment?

Saying they were nannies I don't feel would meet legal requirements. They are not working from the home of the children in their care, they probably do not have their own liability insurance, they are not registered as Home Childcarers and thus if any parent is paying via tax credits or vouchers then that could be considered to be defrauding the Government (the parents would be committing fraud in knowingly using an unregistered provider).

Generally it just seems to be an unsuitable placement, so I would suggest they look for something else which meets the requirements of their course - that may mean a nursery, pre-school, after-school club, or a combination of those.

I only said that it may be legal because OP said childminder was registered as both childminder and nanny, and so could get around it that way

Sorry to take so long to come back to this one.

I have spoken to ACAS, they weren't much help, I also rang Gov.co.uk they were better and gave me some advice for DD. I also rang Ofsted they were brilliant and are going to look into it.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to me and sorry for the delay