Nanny may want to return with own child

[BehindTheCurtain]

Our nanny, currently on maternity leave, had made some comments which suggest she expects to come back with her baby, who would be about 7/8 months by then. DCs will be infant school and preschool age and our days are long, 11 hours minimum plus extra babysitting/overtime sometimes at short/no notice, due to the nature of our jobs and the long commute. I cannot see how the arrangement could work, especially given the nanny now lives over an hour away from us, the school run is tricky as it is and one of the kids has additional needs (not formally diagnosed, but I suspect it is a question of time).

I am not convinced that the nanny has given the issue some proper thought, because I think if she had she would have realised the difficulties. The question is when and how to bring it up. She has always been a reliable nanny and I want to be more than fair to her, by giving her as much time as possible to make other arrangements (for all I know her husband may want to become a SAHP and she might be able to continue as before), but I also do not want to mar her maternity leave with stress. On the other hand, I do not want her to assume a NWOC arrangement is a given, which is what she seems to be doing at the moment (she has said both that she would need to come back to work soon and that she would not put her baby in nursery). I fully realise we need to talk. The question is when would be best and how to approach it.

Any advice, especially by people who have been in the same situation, both employers and nannies,mould be welcome.

Just ask her what her plans for returning are. If she says bringing her child you say "sorry but that doesn't work for us. We love having you as our nanny and we're ready to welcome you back but only on the same terms as before.".

A couple of points - you cannot make substantial changes to her job role after ordinary maternity leave (the first 6 months) ends. Any changes made after that period (additional maternity leave) must be reasonably justified and she should have the same terms and conditions (eg status, pay, weekly hours etc). So you cannot say "we only need you for 30 hours a week I nstead of 45" but you could say "we need you to work 12 hours on Mondays and Tuesdays so we will give you a half day on Fridays so you still work 45 hours per week" if your working patterns had changed. If the changes are substantial you may need to offer redundancy instead but with the caveat that as part of the process you offer her the "new" job on a trail basis (there would be no break in service obviously).

What is her notice period? She still has to give that in full if she decides to quit which is why many nanny employers insist on 3 months.

Childminders cope perfectly well with up to 6 children under the age of 8, one of which may well be a baby and another may well have additional needs.
They, and your nanny, are professional childcarers.

By all means, it's your decision as to whether you allow your nanny to bring her baby, but why on earth would you think she won't cope?

'Am surprised people think returning to work with a baby is something that should be specifically ruled out before maternity leave. The assumption, and the law, is that the same job as before on the same conditions'

Legally you are correct. However, in your OP you said On the other hand, I do not want her to assume a NWOC arrangement is a given, which is what she seems to be doing at the moment. So you suspect that her assumption is that a NWOC is a go. The decent thing to do would have been to tell her that you don't want a NWOC as soon as you realised that she thought that. She shouldn't have assumed, but that doesn't change the fact that you strongly suspect she has assumed and haven't told her she's wrong. A brief, clear chat before she went on ML could have avoided all this. That's why people are saying you should have specifically ruled out her coming back with the baby. It shouldn't really be surprising to you!

As an aside some of the posts on here about the op bring precious are just ludicrous. Of course it makes a difference having an extra child along - would you be ok if your child's teacher or your dentist was looking after their baby while working? Or your cleaner brought her toddler along? You don't think it would impinge on their ability to do their job as well as before?

Just because the job is looking after children it doesn't mean she has any more attention or time to go round. An extra child will mean less time and less attention for all the children. For some employer/employees that is fine, the reduction in pay is adequate compensation but for others it doesn't suit them and there's nothing wrong with that.

But Tanith if people wanted a childminder they would choose a childminder and all the pros and cons that go with that.

The op has chosen to employee a nanny because, one presumes, the pros and cons of employing a nanny suit her family's needs better.

How anyone else manages is irrelevant. She didn't choose an option where that is a factor.

'As an aside some of the posts on here about the op bring precious are just ludicrous'

I think it was the talk of 'neglect' that led to the 'precious' accusations. Any nanny can care for three children without one of them being neglected. A nanny feeding a baby while helping with homework instead of concentrating solely on homework doesn't actually constitute neglect believe it or not!

You need to chat to her. Would you consider her bringing her baby two days a week maybe?
It's ok if the answer is no, but it's something to consider maybe.

Well yes I can believe that. Seeing as I'm not completely hysterical or a bit dim

I don't think you seriously meant to suggest either

MovingOn, what I really meant to emphasise is that the nanny is a professional. It's her job to cope in the same way that childminders and nannies elsewhere cope all the time.

There's the definite possibility that this nanny has managed perfectly well with similar ages and stages in a previous job.

I see and I agree :)

There is a difference between caring for 3 of somebody else's children, and looking after your own baby whilst caring for 2 of somebody else's. It is not unreasonable to feel that the nanny maybe slightly distracted by her own baby to provide the same level of care that was being provided before. (I'm not for one second saying this would be the case, I'm merely suggesting that is how the OP may be feeling, especially as one of her DC has suspected SN).

I think the problem seems to be that her job is in childcare, so the lines between work and caring for children are blurred. Most people in most jobs would not consider taking their babies to work - in an office or shop for example.

You take maternity leave, then you sort out someone/where to look after your baby when it ends and you return to your original job again.

She may work with children anyway but she should be expecting to return to the same job she left, without taking her baby with her. Same as the rest of us.

OP I would just call her and say that although you might have got it wrong, you were picking up things that suggest she was expecting to bring her baby along. Therefore you are contacting her now to check whether this is the case and if so, to tell her that won't work for you and that you want her to return to the previous job role as it was. She will either then say yes or no. Simple.

MovingOnUp, thank you for the tip on changes after the first six months. If the overall annual hours were the same, so overall salary were the same (because of more holiday) could we still increase the weekly hours of the non-holiday weeks? That is the way the role has naturally evolved and it suits our family's new circumstances much better (well, the old arrangement would simply not work).

It sounds as if we need to take advice on the changes and whether they might mean redundancy- I had not considered that at all.

As for not discussing the NWOC-related comments: they were made in passing in the presence of others, it would not have been appropriate to discuss them then.

Probably not ok, because that sounds like a significant change, but without knowing the specifics I can't really say for sure. The best thing is to get proper employment law advice - your payroll company may well provide this as part of your package.

When your nanny said she needed to come back soon and wouldn't leave her child in a nursery - would have been a good time to discuss it - or the following day etc as was in company

May not be fair - but as you didn't say anything the nanny is probably assuming she can come back with baby

OP think you're getting a lot of unfair grief on here. I wouldn't be happy with nanny bringing her own child to work. The way I see it is that I'm paying a premium to get a nanny's sole attention on my children and for her to prioritise my kids - which I do not think is (naturally) possible if you add a nanny's child into the mix.
She may well have alternative arrangements planned. My previous nanny used to leave her daughter with family/crèche. Just clarify what her plan is and do what you think is best for your circumstances. Good luck. Tricky one- especially if you had a good relationship before and if she's good with your kids.

I am a NWOC, and went back to work when my DS was only 17weeks old.
My pay is higher than most nannies I know, so I haven't had to take a pay cut (think £11 plus per hour)
It is actually my DS who gets "neglected" so to speak as I put his needs after the children I am paid to look after.
I personally didn't want my child to be cared for by someone else (outside family) whilst I cared for other children - it didn't make sense in my head.
I also ask my DH to take time off if DS is poorly as I don't want to let me employers down.
I look after 3 children who were aged 20 mths, 5 and 7 when I returned to work and I am still there 3yrs down the line and it still works well.
He loves the children and they love him, I have wonderful bosses and we all have a great relationship.
Is it worth giving it a try - I just wanted to post from a different perspective that a NWOC can work well.

Op I would raise it swiftly with the nanny. It will be an awkward conversation but I would suggest finding a prearranged time where you can ideally meet or if not practical speak on the phone. You need to be clear that she is of course welcome to return to her job as it was pre mat leave, as she is legally entitled to do, but that you would not be happy with her bringing the baby. And that you wanted to raise it now as you'd heard her say a coup,d of things that made you think she might be looking to go down this route and so you wanted to make sure you were all on the same page. This may go down badly but she has zero right to bring her child. The question to be clear in your own mind is whether it's a flat no and no room for discussion or whether you'd be willing to consider proposals from her at all.

I totally understand your position by the way and would feel the same. You've felt unable to have a third child so why should you take many of the downsides that would have brought by introducing the nanny's child into the mix without the enormous upside of actually having your own child.

sorry to be blunt .but you pay her to look after your children .not her own .and sorry but if it came to the crunch her child would be looked after first its only human nature .yes you can have your job but no you can,t bring the baby .and she is unlikelky to leave her child to look after someone else,s .

The important thing is to tell her as soon as possible. She either needs to find a new job or find childcare. She needs time. I'm hoping that OP spoke to her today. Every day you put it off you're being horribly unfair to her.

It's the weekend today so maybe op won't speak till Monday but agree needs to be clarified asap

No nanny experience, but 3 of my own children with very similar age gaps to your own and the nanny's.
I wouldn't do it.
My eldest 2, at the moment, do not always get the attention they need when i have all 3 by myself. When it comes down to it, the older boys want my attention but the toddler often needs it to keep him safe, fed, clean etc. So they miss out. In a little while this will all level out i'm sure, and as pps have said, they will have advantages from a sibling but no way would i pay a premium for the care my older boys get just now.

OP - I may be wrong here but I thought that, as an employer, you are not allowed to contact an employee whilst they are on maternity to ask them what they are considering doing, i.e. if or when they are planning on returning to work and, if that is the case, by extension then I am not sure that, legally, you could initiate this conversation with her, however much you may want to and however much easier it may make things all round. It may be worth posting in legal and double checking. Having said that, unless you do start that conversation, I have no idea how you clarify with her that she understands that she can't bring her child with her when she returns to work.

I wouldn't want a nanny to come back with her baby. She is effectively getting free childcare for her own DC whilst you are paying her look after yours. Let alone the fact your DC are not getting the care they are used to from her for which you are paying.

Its a no brainer for me. However much I liked her I would not take her back on if she were to bring her own DC into work whilst looking after my DC.

And what happens if her baby gets harmed by one of your DC or has some kind of accident in your home?