Thinking about a nanny - very nervous, need help

[peainthepod]

Hi,
This is my first time posting and I'm looking for a bit of advice/ reassurance. I have 3 children aged 4, 2 and 3month old baby and have been offered a wonderful job starting in the new year. I have pretty much been a SAHM since my eldest was born and have just used a day nursery for my eldest 2 here there and whilst doing freelance stuff.

I wasn't planning on returning to work F/T so soon but this job offer really is the chance of a lifetime. So I'm thinking of a nanny as 3 full time places at nursery costs ?1700pm.

So my questions are - will a nanny be cheaper than nursery, will a nanny be better?, how do I find a good nanny, and how do I reconcile my guilty thoughts at going back to work and leaving someone I don't really know in my home and with my precious baby??????

Also, forgive me making a stereotye but I always assume posh families have nannies.........we are not posh, or have loads of money, we live in a very normal semi-detached house in a very normal neighbourhood, we have no foreign holidays, swimming pools, car, annexe etc to offer a nanny so would a nanny even want to consider a job with us???

I'm not bothered by the nanny doing any housework, ironing, cooking etc for the children. Just want someone who will enjoy looing after my children, play with them, take them to the park and ensure they are safe and happy, make them some sandwiches for lunch.

Sorry for the waffle but feeling quite ill at ease with this whole process.

Nick, that link says the fixed term contract can be renewed for four years before it is likely to be considered permanent employment.

hello pea...i'm a nanny and I've worked for a few families...some lived in huge houses and lead very luxurious lifestyles, however one family I worked for lived in a very down to earth neighbourhood, they had money problems all the time I was there and lived in a modest 3 bed semi, but you know what...they were the best family I ever have and ever will work for. They treated me like their daughter and didn't care about the material things in life...just that their children were happy. As long as you treat the nanny with respect and include her as one of the family then i'm sure she'll love being with you more than she would any posh family.

I have had a nanny since I went back to work ft when my oldest was 6 months.

We started with a nanny share as we couldn't afford her to ourselves (we're not posh or rich either!), then when money was a bit less tight, when my second son was born, moved to a sole nanny.

For me it was the only option - my children would be in their own home and would get much more attention. There is the obvious advantage that if they're ill there is still someone to look after them rather than you having to take time off work.

I know that you have 3 little ones, so they will take up a lot of her time, but I would seriously recommend that you include the children's washing/ironing in her contract - it will really take the load off you. Don't underestimate how tired you will be when you get home from work!!! I think most nannies would expect to be asked to do this (although equally I'm sure they'd be delighted not to have to do it!)

We still have a nanny, although only part time now as my boys are 14 and 11 - frankly we don't really need her now, although I like the fact that there's someone in the house when they get home from school. Although I work from home I'm often away at meetings so the house can be empty.

We have only had two nannies - our first for 5 years and the second for 9 years. People often say "aren't you lucky", but I can assure you there is no luck involved. They have both been exceptionally nice women, but I have always made sure that I treat them really well and have been very generous to them. If I couldn't afford extra pay, there have been other bonuses along the way to make sure that they want to work for me. (If it sounds cynical, it's exactly that - they are a hugely precious resource and you really want to make sure that they don't leave!)

Others here have given great advice; I definitely recommend Nannytax, and make sure you pay on a gross basis. A contract is a good idea, and I would also recommend that you decide up front what you do and don't want her to do with your children. One of the families we shared with were impossible because they had loads of (sometimes odd) things they disapproved of (processed food being one), but hadn't made this clear, so our nanny was always in the wrong and always being told off. If you don't want your children to eat processed food, for example, it would be a good idea to define what you mean by that as this caused all sorts of problems for us!

Good luck!

whoops - sorry, managed to post this twice!

Hi Peainthepod and welcome.
It sounds like you have a great opportunity.
I have 3 under 4 (almost 4, 2 and 4 months)and now have a nanny, having used nursery for DD1 &2. DD1 is now at preschool 08.30-15.30. I work at least 30 hours a week.
Firstly it is almost always cheaper to have a nanny for 3-nurseries round here, Berkshire, are about £10000 per year per F/T child, after discounts.
We are not posh whatsoever. Like you, I thought that nannies would not want to work in an ordinary home like ours. I was wrong. Our first nanny was not good, but I don't think we knew what to ask to filter applicants properly. We were swayed by the qualifications, experience and excellent references, but she wasn't for us. We should have gone with gut feeling. Shared values and expectations are really important.
I would recommend nannyjob, which worked out well for us.
Our current nanny is just fab, she works a 40 hour week over 5 days, which suits her, and we pay her 40 hour pay (ie she gets 80% of what a 50 hour nanny would get). She is qualified but inexperienced. We hope we treat her well by treating her as we would like to be treated. She is paid gross, we pay her CAS and at least a day's training a year. I am very relaxed about the tidying etc as three under 3 is a handful , and each day is different. It is however in her contract, so that when I am out with them or the younger ones get older, she can get on with other things.
If you can afford it would suggest getting the nanny to start well before you need her so they can see how you run your house and how you operate as a family.
I really love my career, and have returned to work very quickly after each child. Sometimes I feel guilty about working when they are so young, but a happy mummy is a happy child.
Good luck!

Sorry to be so dense...

but why is it important to pay "gross" (with reference to warning to never, never talk about paying in net.)

Aren't you required to pay their tax and N.I.?

you put the GROSS amount in the contract (which is nannies net pay + current tax and NI levels) so if Tony Blair decides to up tax rates etc you (the employer) doesnt have to pay out more... and if he lowers tax rates... we nannies get more money in our pockets...

many nanny salaries are discussed in terms of net wage.... though any sensible parent (and nanny) would insist that is translated into gross on the contract!

Technically you are DEDUCTING tax and NI from the gross salary, and paying employer's NI on top.These sums are sent to IR.
There is no reason why nanny salaries should be quoted differently from others, except convention.
Paying gross protects the employer from variations in tax and NI regimes that could mean uncontrollable costs, and from other complications such as job shares (that can involve things like splitting the tax code etc
I see it as a bit like 'plus VAT' -in that there aren't that many people who pay VAT, so it can be a way of making the price look less than the full cost.

Thanks so much for all the replies.....certainly food for thought. I have until end of this month to make decision aboutwhether to take the job or not with the view of starting Feb time.

I mentioned to my nursery (that i use for eldest 2) what Iwas thinking of doing and they did some sums and offered me 3 f/t places for £1445 pcm......a bargain??

I would really like a nanny but main concern now is getting someone who I trust implicitly. I was thinking of approaching a couple of the nursery nurses that I like at their nursery and seeing if they're interested? Is this terrible.....any advice about whether I should do this or is it not the done thing

Once again thanks for the help.....this board is a godsend

Check your contract with the nursery. Most of them put in a oenalty for pinhing their staff. Not sure how they go about proving it. But, the fee is usually pretty hefty. If, however, you go and pinch staff from a different nursery, you'd probably be in the clear.

Otherwise, I personnaly think x-nursery staff can make very good nannies. And, nursery staff usually make minimu wage. So, it isn't too difficult to make an attractive offer.

I agree with Uwila - former nursery staff are the best nannies. They are good at multi tasking, great at innovative play and quite happy to get mucky. Our old nanny was a total nightmare but our new one is ex nursery and she is a godsend. They also seem to have oodles of patience.

One thing I would just advise you to be wary about is that not all nannies are good with young babies. Some of them like the idea of babies but when it comes to it they have no idea what's involved with a tiny baby. Make sure you get someoene with experience of babies. And someone wth brilliant references.

I agree with ex nursery staff as brill nannies. One of our was, and she was brilliant from the first day. I didn't steal her from the nursery I used, and there was no contract as such, preventing me. i did mention to the nursery staff that I was looking for a nanny willing to work outside the usually 8-6 hours.

On the plus side she really enjoying having a some freedom to take the children on outings and plan the day herself, and getting paid slightly more money.

Our nanny is an ex-nursery nurse (was ds's keyworker but he had left the nursery a good 6 months before we employed her. She is great in many ways - but she did find it difficult adjusting to looking after children of different ages simultaneously. She is great with groups of toddlers/pre-schoolers but not so much with babies.
We didn't have a 'no stealing staff' clause in our nursery contract, but I bet they are thinking of putting one in as after we employed our nanny, another 3 staff left to become nannies - although it's not so much cheeky parents as the nursery not paying the staff extra once they pass their NVQ3 that is causing the exodus.

Hi Peainthepod & welcome to mumsnet.

You've had great advice here that I won't add to, but also wanted to say that Australian nannies are brilliant. I've had 2 and they are very sensible, practical, outdoorsy, kind spirited and community/world oriented. (I can't vouch for the entire australian population, but the ones I've met/employed are all wonderful).

Take a look at greataupair.com. There are lots and lots of nannies there.

Hi, v similar position to peainthepod but have found out my son's keyworker is leaving his nursery as unhappy there--i've offered her a nanny position for the new year and she's accepted but reading this made me panic. Can i not do this? even if not explicit in my nursery contract can i be done for taking staff?
thanks for such a great thread--v useful

U-oh, green as a cabbage here; am I horribly overpaying? £330 pw net, through an agency who thought that might be a bit too low...lovely nanny is super and very experienced though...

U-oh, green as a cabbage here; am I horribly overpaying? £330 pw net, through an agency who thought that might be a bit too low...lovely nanny is super and very experienced though...

What hours does your nanny work Spockster, and is it live-in or live-out, and which area are you.
I'm west london and nanny salaries tend to be £300-400net per week according to hours, experience and qualifications of nanny. (I think that the agencies try and push the price up as much as they can).
My nanny is at the lower end of the scale but this is her first nanny job (although has 10 years childcare experience), and she works a shorter day than most nannying positions (leaves at 5.45pm)

We are South East, live out nanny & hours are 8am to 6pm with some flexibility. Also, we are perfect employers in a spotless house with 2 little darlings who are never ever naughty.....come to think about it, I think the nanny should pay to work with us!

£400 per week net will cost you more than a £31000 annually. And I'll shut up now and leave my violin in the case.

I might wear out the bow.

I used to be a nanny, I had no previous experience at all, the girls were 6 & 8, I was paid around 750 month, I got expenses to take the kids out and now 10 years later I am still very good friends with their mum, they are both very well balanced children and very successful. I think as long as you can take to time to find a nanny that you really get on with it would be great for the kids. I think it is good that you dont mind if she doesn't do the house work as this means that she can devote her time to your children but expecting a little cleaning shouldn't be out of the question. Have you thought about a childminder? They can do resonable rates for siblings. Dont feel guilty about your choices you are doing what is best for your family. It will all work out.

pea, I had the same thought about posh people and nannies and was worried when we first got one, but our hours at work are unpredictable, so we need someone who can cope with a change to horus at short notice, and only a nanny fitted that role. I'm really glad we did because you do get that one to one care and because the nanny lives in we get a lot of time to discuss the kids and make sure we're on the same track in childcaring.

As to not being posh, most nannies are not posh and tend to feel more comfortable around people from backgrounds that might be a bit more like their own (I'm generalising here, but you get the point). I'm sure that is why so many nannies for really well off people are less relaxed (and so not relaxed around the kids), because they might feel a bit like servants. It has certainly helped building a bond with our nannies (we're on to number three) that they don't feel we come from a completely different world to them.

Some nannies do want to work for upper class families and won't look outside Kensington or Mayfair. I reckon that people who live there are very welcome to nannies who are more interested in the post code than the kids.