How many children can a nanny or childminder look after?

[londonistic]

Hi there

Can any nannies or childminders out there give me some advice on quotas for children under 4? I am in a nanny share with four families, where all of the children are under 4. Two have just started school nursery for half days, and so the fourth family joined us a month ago.

Now, twice a week, our nanny has five children, albeit for just the morning, and it worries me. There are three children under 18 months, one 2.5yrs and two 3.5 yrs, and she has a combination of them on different days.

My son has four days with her, while the other children have variously, two or three days.

I have said to her that I am uneasy about the arrangement, but I am not sure if I am being neurotic. Any advice welcome!

A nanny can't work for more than two families at the same time. It is illegal.

As far as I know a nanny can only have 2 families children at the same time. Number of children - any. I am guessing she doesn't nanny 3 or 4 families at the same time.

Is she a nanny or a childminder? Where is she caring for the children?

Thanks very much for replying, that is interesting/worrying.

On Tuesdays and Wednesdays she has all four families (five children) and on Thursdays she has three families.

Not sure if it makes any difference, but she is self-employed but not Ofsted registered. (In fact, when I joined the share six months ago, she claimed she was in the process of registration. However, when I pushed her about it because I want to be able to use childcare vouchers, she claimed they had lost her registration and she is now starting again...)

It is all really unsettling. The major upside is that she is very good with the kids and very caring.

She is based at our houses. One and half days at two of the families, and two days at mine.

In England it would breach the Childcare Act 2006, as that permits a nanny to care for children from Family A and Family B wholly or partially in the home of Family A or Family B.

This therefore means that any public liability insurance the nanny has is invalid as most policies require correct registration is complied with.

Your own employers insurance may not cover it either, check with provider.

Employment status makes no difference. Unusual for a nannyshare to be self employed.

They could register as a childminder and could then care for up to 6 children under age 8, of whom 3 could be Young Children (under fulltime school age).

Could you find a local registered childminder?

Do you really want all these children in your home?

Thanks nannynick! God, I really do need to do something. No, I definitely don't want all of these children in my house. I need to rethink. Which is a pain, because I like her!

Nannies can't be self employed, you are responsible for her taxes. Which means that if you get caught, you will have to pay taxes on what you paid to her, maybe more.

i am afraid you are just illegally employing a nanny (unwillingly)

There is no quota under 4/5 unlike a cm who can only have 3 tho a nanny can't have more then 6 children and from 2 families only

What she is doing is illegal as would make her a cm

Also you need to be careful as also illegal to be se if working for the same family and you set the days hours etc

How does payment work? Do you all pay an hourly rate? On Thursday she must be raking it in lol

So you need to change the amount of families down to two including yourself and also starting paye and be an employer - whether to this nanny or another

A very serious sit down chat is needed asap

Sorry tue and wed not thur

Thanks, it isn't sounding good...

Can she be a freelance childminder coming to our houses? And would this be subject to the usual quotas? Or would that also be illegal?

I pay her £60 per day for a full day, plus food (this is London, lol!). The families with siblings pay £100 for two.

There's no way at all she can be classed as as a childminder and based at yours or any of the other families houses. It all has to be based from her house if she was one. Also I'm sure when you she was supposedly registering with ofsted in all the forms it says about how many families a ofsted nanny can work for but i may be wrong

Childminders work in our own homes, with different registration and strict ratios.

A childminder works in her own home, there is no such thing as a freelance childminder, a childcarer in the childs home is a nanny. And yes they can not have more than 6 children (any ages) from more than 2 families at one time, so if no more than two families use her at the same time over a week she could work for all four of you but it sounds like she doesn't.

The whole point of a share from a money point of view is that the nanny gets a little more per hour/day maybe 25% but you as the employer pay less per hour/day as you split the cost, you are her employer so should be registered with hrmc as such and be paying tax and ni from her gross wage plus employers ni.

Think you need to re think the whole situation very soon.

Sorry to say this Londonistic but I also think you are being taken for a mug. Four families, 5 children 3 1/2 days of which all 5 children at yours for 2 days. Who will be paying heating bills, water bills, food costs, wear and tear, emergency washing cost for those 2 days a week? YOU?
Is it really benefiting you one child?
Sorry to sound so negative!

She is making beepload of money. And probably not paying taxes. Anyway. You take a lot of risk, legally and for your child safety. If an accident happens(even a small one, even to another child), what will she do? Take all the kids to the hospital?

if she get caught, you will regret not stopping her. Really. You have to talk to her tonight or tomorrow.

Did someone point out the HMRC implications? Tax man will come after YOU if they ever found out. Tax man will look into all your affairs including your own employers pay to you checking tax codes etc. I know this to be true .... Sorry can't explain how I know.

Extremely good point 'oh really'. Child is at the centre of this.

Jeez. I feel such a fool. Thank you everyone for your input. As a parent, you just haven't got a clue about any of this!

It doesn't need to be her house but your home would need to be her registered premises. There are CM who work from homes which aren't their own but really best avoided. You need to lay down the law (literally!).

It makes me so mad when people do this, not only is it illegal, it's highly dangerous. No insurance, no inspections, she obviously doesn't have any understanding of what she is doing, because if she does try to register as a nanny, oftsed will say no, she is working as an unregistered CM.

Whilst there are some exceptions, the basic rule is no more than 3 under 5yr olds. I doubt she has risk assessed to manage her numbers in varying scenarios.

Withdraw your child from her care, and advise other parents do the same, immediately!!

What will you do op?

Who had the share first - and you need to warn/chat to other parents - ideally all of you need to sit down and work out who employs her

You may like her but all the nannies I know , know you can't be se if in perm work with days and hours stated and can't work for 4 families

Personally she sounds unprofessional and doesn't give a shit about regulations and insurence and I would want out of this and find my own nanny

Tho you will be paying much more then £60 a day - that's more like cm/nursery

And also, how do you know how good she is? If she is soo greedy to ask so much money and have so many children at the same in a house that is not a childminder house, inspected by ofsted and safe to receive these childrem, how can you trust her to be good?

My son has four days with her, while the other children have variously, two or three days.

So you are a big bulk of your nannies income, so do you get to make decisions?

when I joined the share six months ago
So did you join another family who already had this nanny? Or did you join a nannyshare, where there were two families already - thus you were the third family?

Families 3 and 4 really need to leave the share on Tue & Wed and one family needs to leave the share on the Thursday.
Last in, first out I would suggest as then it leave the families who setup share originally in the same position they were when they started it.

CORRECTION - I was wrong, it's not in the Act. It's in a Statutory Instrument. Not that it makes much difference, it's still Legislation which has to be complied with by everyone (in England).
This is the bit you need - from The Childcare (Exemption from Registration) Order 2008
It exempts a nannyshare, where there are TWO families sharing a nanny.

The 2006 Act has things to do with what does need registration, such as Early Years Childminders.
If she was to provide childminding at ONE house, then she would need to register with Ofsted as a childminder (this can take many months), and comply with Early Years Foundation Stage Statutory Framework. Childminder:Child ratio info starts on bottom of page 24 of the EYFS Statutory Framework (2014 edition).