Working out holiday entitlement

[ZumZee]

We are hoping to employ a nanny 2 days a week, and I need to work out the holiday entitlement.

I was thinking 12 days per year (so a bit more than the statutory entitlement), saying that they must be taken to cover Bank holidays, the period between Christmas and NY, and during our 2wk summer holiday. The rest to be agreed by discussion, but must be outside of term-time and with 1 month notice unless exceptional circumstances.

Does this sound like a usual / reasonable approach, would it put people off? Or any ideas for a better way of arranging it?

The statutory entitlement is 28 * 0.4 so that is only very slightly more. Your proposition is legal but doesn't leave nanny with many days to choose for themselves.

Do you actually need a month's notice? For shorter periods off I think it's standard to require less notice. I appreciate it's a tricky balance between being fair and meeting your own work obligations but I think being too strict from the outset will (perhaps inadvertently) send a negative message about you as an employer.

The key is which days does she work. If it includes Monday then there are always at least 4 BH, more if Xmas, Boxing Day or New Year's Day are on a Monday. So 12 days takes her to maximum 4 weeks excluding BH and possibly less. The picture is very different if she doesn't work Mondays. I have a Monday Tuesday nanny and I give 4 weeks plus all bank holidays, which comes to more than the statutory 5.6 weeks pro rata. She chooses two weeks and I choose two weeks.

Oh right thanks. I don't want to sound strict! We could look at 13 days if that would be better.

Re the notice, I have to book holidays off with plenty of notice if I want school holidays, so I would need to ensure that I can cover the nanny's leave. What would be a better way of organising it, what do other people do? I guess I could look into costs of emergency nanny if necessary.

X posts green so you do 14 days holiday is that correct?

Yes either mon/tue or mon/we'd, so it would mean that most BH would fall on my days. That's a good idea, to choose 2 weeks each. How much notice do you give each other? And do you operate in weeks or do you or her take single days in a week? And do you stipulate outside of termtime? My eldest is in school so I need this.

If its hard for you to take leave in holidays then why are you restricting your nanny to those times?

I would suggest four weeks plus BH (as long as that makes 5.6 weeks total) two weeks her choice and two weeks yours. Then it's only two weeks a year that isn't in your control. Between Xmas and new year she may choose to take, or you can give it as extra paid leave to foster goodwill, or get her in doing short days,looking after one child so you can have quality time alone with the other (if you've got more than one!) etc etc

Xpost again!

I don't stipulate out of term time as it doesn't really matter to me. I never work BH so I don't need her on those days, so yes she gets 8 days AL plus 4 days BH plus a bit more if Xmas etc are on a Monday. I can take single days of leave so I haven't stipulated a need to be taken in full weeks. I also ask for four weeks notice though will be flexible if I can get the time off or my mum can help out.

Thanks that is helpful. I want to be fair and for us to be an attractive proposition for someone!

We have to take between Christmas and NY off as our offices close then, as does nursery (where younger DC goes for other days). So I would need nanny holidays then otherwise I will run out of leave.

12 days is fine but as one of the working days is a Monday if you don't want them to work bank holidays it will use a lot up.

Offer more if you are able.

Work out all the dates you need them to have off for the next 2 years, so all the bank holidays and xmas and summer holiday if known. What does it leave them? Possibly nothing.

It may suit someone who is happy to plan their holiday to be the same as yours.

I have to give 6 weeks notice for annual leave so our nanny also as to give 6 weeks notice. she does Mon/Thurs and her contract says 12 days (ie 6 weeks0 plus B Hols pro rata. In reality as my new p/t job gives me 6 weeks a/l plus all B holidays I don't make her take a/l for B hols but she does occasionally stay late happily as we have a good relationship and know there's a bit of give and take both ways

You are asking her to take three weeks holiday (two in the summer and one at xmas) at a time of your choosing, which is a worse deal than the standard two weeks choice each. Would you take a job where you could potentially choose only one week of holiday each year?

I really think you need to offer two weeks at a time of her choosing, not including BH otherwise how can she go away with her partner/family? If not you'll need to offer something else like a higher hourly rate. If you're offering almost no holiday at a time of her choosing, and standard pay, you might find the pool of nannies is small and that they don't stay long.

Mmm yes I do see the point.

So maybe 13 days leave, all of which have to be taken in school hols (unless exceptional circumstances). Of these 4 or 5 need to be BH and 4 we will choose for our 2wk summer hols. The remaining 4 or 5 days taken as nanny chooses, but with at least month notice.

Does that sound like a reasonable deal?

But you said you wanted her to take the time between Xmas and new year too, what about the non bank holiday days in that time?

13 days minus 4 in the summer, 5 bank holidays and 2 at Christmas only leaves 2 days.

That doesn't sound good to me, only 2 days which means 1 week for the Nanny to choose him or her self.

You can always give more time off if your Al from work allows so do what you stated above and then do between christmas and ny as extra or split it between you and her so some of it comes out of both sides leave unless you don't want her to work at all during that time then it all comes from you half of Al as she may decide she would rather work than take time off then.

I understand you child is at school so you can't go away during term time but I would allow the nanny to choose at least one week of term time holiday as she may not want to holiday with all the school children or be able to afford to pay the extra cost. You say it is easier for you to take time of during term time so I would allow her to do that.

If you want to go away/ not need the nanny to work more than your half of Al you can just let the nanny have extra paid time of or ask them to pop in to do some child related jobs while you are away.

No I meant that I wouldn't stipulate time off at Christmas - we're off anyway so could either give as extra time off, or ask for a couple of half days or something. Would have to try to get some family help to cover the shortfall. So just the BH and 2 weeks in the summer would be my choice, remaining are hers / his. So 2 weeks for them to choose. I just don't get enough AL myself to be any more flexible unless there's something I've calculated wrong.

I think if you go with Tuesday and Wednesday as your days it will give you both a lot more flexibility. I don't think any of the 2015 bank holidays fall on a Tuesday or Wednesday, for example, and in future years you would only every have 2 bank holidays at most that you had to take out of your leave allowances. (< Double check this but I think I'm right.)

I agree with PPs that it would be good to let him/her take leave during term time. If you are home with the DCs 3 days a week + weekends then you will still get to see lots of them during school holidays on your non-working days.

Oops sorry just reread your previous post where you said Monday & Wednesday, thought it was Tuesday & Wednesday. Is Monday non-negotiable?

No I work almost full time, it's he children will go to nursery the other days. Good point about choosing the days though

If you're not making her use AL at Xmas then that sounds fine.