Kids saying that the nanny has called them stupid??!!

[Minki]

We have a new nanny who started with us almost a month ago. She seems quite good and had good references and experiences. The children seemed ok with her to begin with but over the last few days have said they don't like her (they have said that about nannies before), that she is the worst nanny they have ever had (they have not said that before) and that she calls them stupid! The first two comments I understand but I am very worried by the third comment as it is not ok for anyone to call them stupid. Not sure what to do though will obviously have to raise this with her and see what she says. The children (aged 6 and 4) are quite naughty/high spirited but they don't usually lie. There have been a few other niggles, in that she leaves the lounge and their rooms messy and she also just texted to tell me that she cannot work on Thursday as she has an appointment somewhere. Bit strange really that she would "tell me" rather than "ask me" given that she is only a few weeks into the job and employed as an after-school nanny. I should be able to take Thursday afternoon off but wouldn't usually be able to on such short notice. Starting to get a bad feeling about this, or am I being paranoid?

Not paranoid no.

I would have a chat with her - explain what you expect her to do. Also ask her about the stupid comment e.g. the DCs were using the word stupid, I've told them it isn't nice, do you know where they've got it from...? Watch her reaction.

All children lie. It's part of development. They may or may not be lying about this.

Do you have references? Can you check with them whether this type of thing went on?

Speak to the nanny. It may have been a 'don't be silly/stupid' type comment instead of a direct insult.

As for the telling you part, you are right. She needs to ASK leave/time off. I would be irritated by this.

Talk to her and be honest. Don't dismiss your children's feelings. But don't let them make decisions either.

Thanks Iggly. So you would raise it in a casual way rather than asking her directly about it? Feel completely doomed with nannies. Things always seem to go tits up.

Thanks DrPepper. I am a bit irritated and don't want to start off on the wrong foot with her. Could it be though because I asked her, on fairly short notice, not to work last Wednesday? I am basically employing her as an after-school nanny for 20 hours a week but told her I needed her for extra hours in the first month as my youngest only start reception properly today (staggered intake etc). She worked 40 hours the first two weeks but only 22 hours last week as their dad ended up taking them one afternoon. Maybe she is pissed off about that as she thought she would work 40 again.

If you gave her short notice not to work last week one day then I think its fair game that she gives you short notice this week and maybe she's making that point.

Don't you have a contract which agrees what notice you have to give each other for hours worked if you don't have fixed working hours in place?

Called them stupid or used the word stupid? There's a difference in saying You are so stupid to What a stupid thing to do. Children can struggle with this. I have seen this a few times as a teacher.

Yes, maybe she is, which is fine. I have not given her her contract yet (need to this week) but this month has been weird as my youngest as been doing strange hours at school, e.g. 9-12 some days, 9-1 others, 9-3pm other days, which I told her about and made clear that I am only guaranteeing her 20 hours a week but for the first few weeks needed extra hours. Last week she still earnt £220 per week so in excess of the 20 hours /£200 per week that will go into her contract.

Can you suggest a one month review?
Ask her how she thinks things are going and if she has any concerns and then you tell her your views.

What does your contract say about notice on extra hours?

I did ask her nicely about taking last wednesday afternoon off though and said, is that ok etc? She seemed fine with it.

Yes, I will do a one month review before I give her the contract. The contract I was going to give her doesn't mention extra hours. I have told her I will need additional hours in the holidays.

I would have given her a contract before she started work, that's only fair. You knew your child's reception routine beforehand so I think asking her not to work one day at short notice should have been avoidable. If you have asked her at short notice, she probably thinks it is acceptable to give you similarly short notice. I would be very careful about approaching the stupid comment. If they have said they don't like nannies before, is this just an extension of that behaviour? Would they rather have some other care/you at home? I also think you have to be careful about what you ask of an after-school nanny in terms of tidying etc. We had years of after-school nannies who worked mostly from 3.15 to 6.30. By the time they got home, had a snack and changed clothes, did reading, spellings etc and had a bit of playtime/TV, it was time to get dinner ready. I would quite often come home to messy rooms because nanny wouldn't have time to tidy the mess the DS made while she was getting dinner and she would usually only have time to wash up/tidy kitchen afterwards before I got home. Are the children helping to tidy their own mess?

I don't want to give her a contract until she has worked a few weeks. Legally I have a month to give her a contract. I didn't actually know his routine until the day he started although I knew it would be staggered/irregular. I gave her a copy of it as soon as I got it so she knew the hours when I did. Asking her to not work one afternoon came about because their dad (who usually sees them at the weekends) asked to see them in the week as he was away at the weekend. He often mucks me around or gives me short notice regarding access but I try to accommodate him otherwise he wouldn't see the kids. I didn't really want to pay for a nanny for 6 hours when the kids were with their dad, and felt that I had already paid her in excess of the number of hours we had agreed, so didn't feel too bad asking her to not work. I don't mind her taking this Thursday off at short notice but am worried if it is a sign of a bad attitude /tit for tat, or her thinking she can take holiday whenever she likes. Point taken that she is only working few hours and so may not have time to tidy up. And yes, I would expect her to get the kids to tidy up after themselves so it's not even that she has to do it.

And yes, of course they would rather have me at home, and I would rather be at home looking after them but sadly that's not possible. They have not liked nannies in the past but just minor grumbles but they have never said that a nanny has called them stupid before.

I wouldn't like the "stupid" thing.

But on the hours working thing - if you are messing her about at short notice with working hours, then you have set the standard which says that working hours are flexible, and she, too, can change working hours at short notice. If you want a nanny (this nanny, or any subsequent nanny) to be reliable as an employee, you have to show yourself reliable as an employer.

Yes, but I also need flexibility and made it very clear that I would need more/less hours with v little notice. I expressly said that I will pay her for 20 hours a week but not more and that everything else is a bonus as I did not want her starting then leaving as not enough hours. She was fine with this. I often have to work late and so will be back from work late, often with very little notice. I need her to be on time though! How is that going to work? It's not I guess.

I don't think it will, and I doubt it will with anyone else, either. You say that you've had bad luck with other nannies, but I suspect it has to do with what you offer as an employer. A good employer-employee contract is a partnership, and if you expect flexibility from someone but are cross if they want flexibility in return, then it isn't a partnership.

And I asked her to not work for one afternoon on one occasion and told her why (dad had asked to see them) and that going forward it would be fixed at 3-7pm every day. I thought that she would have had a tiny amount of goodwill rather than reacting like this, if that is what she is doing. She was very keen for the job and had been massively underpaid by her previous employer who was not paying tax or NI. I have already paid her 2k for September so really think that losing 1 afternoon is not significant.

Well, good on you for paying NI and tax, as so few do!

Hmm I'm not sure mixed hours work well tbh. If you had a childminder 3-6pm or paid after school club you would still have to regardless of whether dad picked up/ child sick etc, as slot is booked. Same with nanny. Name can't work elsewhere if times not fixed. If say 2-6pm, then she can work 8-1pm with another family. People who want odd hours tend to just pay full time hours ie 8-6pm to make sure nanny is available.

How many nannies have you had? Do you think this may be why you have had more than 1 nanny?

ArcheryAnnie, you suspect wrong I'm afraid. The bad luck has come from a nanny getting pregnant 2 months into the job then going off sick for 3 months, having to pay her sick pay plus a temp nanny each day (plus agency fees), having kids upset with a new person each day, massive added stress, then having to fork out 2k in accrued holiday when she finally left etc.

Yes, and I said that going forward the timing will be 3-7pm every day. I would not expect to change the fixed hours and if I give her the day off, then I would still need to pay for it. I just thought that given that she has literally had double the hours (and double the pay) the first month (which was welcome), losing one afternoon would not be a massive deal. I have had several nannies and all have stayed at least a year and left for unrelated reasons (one got pregnant, wanted to come back with child (but charge the same, I said no), the next moved back to France to get married, one left in August as hours reducing to after-school position and she wanted more hours etc.

If you didn't need her for one of her days because other arrangements had been made for the children you should have paid her for those hours anyway. It appears from what you have stated that all of the flexibility needs be on one side only.

A lot of small kids being taken care of by employees complain and make things up/misconstrue stuff because they think that if they can get rid of them Mummy will be at home with them all the time. I once had one of my charges tell me that he was going to get Mummy to send me away. This was because their previous nanny who the kids allegedly did not like at all (possibly because the kids were bloody "lively" and she was probably quite strict with them) had had a serious disagreement with my employer and had walked out. I made it clear to him that Mummy was quite happy with me and that I wasn't going anywhere.

Minki

Take a deep breath.

'Stupid' who knows - she's unlikely to have told them they are stupid and much more likely to have told them to stop being stupid. If your children are, as you say, naughty - then a nanny they don't like might not mean the nanny is the wrong one! She might just be expecting decent behaviour from them and that's no bad thing.

You need to talk to her and explain that you cannot take time off at short notice or arrange other care for the children so she needs to make other arrangements for her appointments.

I often have to work late and so will be back from work late, often with very little notice

You are employing her from 3pm to 7pm. If you need a nanny to be available, at the drop of a hat, for longer hours, you need to be paying her a premium for never knowing if she will be working 'late' or not. She is as entitled to have a life outside of work as anyone else is. She's not 'on call' unless you pay for 'on call' services AND the extra hours on top of that.

If the children go to their Dad's or anywhere else, you still need to pay your nanny & NOT expect her to work the time in lieu. She is available for the contracted hours, if you choose not to use them, that's up to you. (I realise this week was unusal - but I'm just saying - going forward).

Also 'I will need more hours in the holidays' - well, if she's available and willing, great. If she isn't you will have to find an alternative. You simply cannot have all the perks of a full time nanny and only pay a few hours after school.

As for tidying?! I imagine she has plenty to do with your 'lively' children and all the afterschool stuff without doing much in the way of housework. She should be leaving it much as she finds it - but you need to be honest about how much is reasonable with your kids.

You are trying to have your cake and eat it too I'm afraid.

I disagree that I am asking to have my cake and eat it. I am just asking for a degree of flexibility. I appreciate she may say "no" or she won't be available if I need more hours and that she has the right to say no, but the nature of the position IS that some flexibility is required. This has never been a problem in the past. I would ask the nanny if she could work late or to cover extra days in the holidays, if she couldn't then fine but I need to be able to ask! I have mostly found that nannies ARE flexible and welcome the extra ££ that goes with it. It's usually reducing hours that is the problem and I accept that going forward if I ask her not to work on short notice then I will need to pay.

In any event, I just saw my nanny and she explained that she needs the time off to do a language test as she is applying for a passport or "settlement" . Sounds like she just got the appointment which explains the short notice. I am fine with this and happy to take the day off or arrange alternative cover so, again, disagree that this is one sided.

I am now not sure whether to raise the "stupid" comment as I don't want to risk offending her. I would be surprised if she said this but don't want to let the children down by not raising it. Will have to have a think about how to approach it.

Yes if you want her availiable full time in holidays, then you pay full time.

Would you be available as and when for your work for 60 hrs a week if they only paid you 20hrs usually?