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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Childminder costs

40 replies

Mnmsmammy1 · 13/08/2014 17:33

Can anyone please advise, my sister has found a childminder that she wants to take care of her son while she's at work, she had a bad experience with her previous nursery and so is very keen to have home with someone she feels comfortable with. The problem is she got the contract today and it states that she has to pay for 52 weeks a year but they only provide 48 weeks childcare! At £40 a day that seems ridiculous. Can anyone please advise if this is allowed or does anyone know where oi can find this out.
Thanks in advance
Leanne

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adp73 · 14/08/2014 12:09

Mnmsmammy1 I think your sister needs to work out the Annual Costs instead of focusing on the daily costs.

I am one of the more expensive cm in my area and I am cheaper than all the local Nurseries, unless they charge much less when you sign up that the fees they advertise! They all charge 52 weeks a year which is added up and divided by 12 to give an even amount each month and they all close for at least a week over Christmas and New Year. Most open at 7,30am one at 7am and they close at between 6pm and 7pm. None of them provide a full evening meal they do a 'High Tea at about 4pm so how hungry is the child that stays to 7pm going to be? Yes they are there every week and are not usually affected by staff holidays or sickness though I have known one close because of an outbreak of Noro Virus.

Childminders often offer longer hours than Nurseries, you find that they are rarely off sick and if they are they will often try their best to find another cm to cover the time for them.

Childminders need holiday the same way you do and I find it mad when a cm boasts they have only taken a couple of days off in a year and as a parent I would avoid using such a cm like the plague because we all need time off to recharge our batteries, even if we don't actually go away just time out is needed this is why the Government say all employers must give a min of 28 day Annual Leave (including the 8 BH) and every cm should be taking at least this number of days off, parents do.

How a cm covers the cost of their days off is up to them. They can not charge the very high hourly rates that other Self Employed workers do (typically £40 to 50per hour for a Plumber, Electrician, Hair dresser, etc) because this is perceived as wrong though we happily pay the rates for the above! However the cm like any other self employed person has to have some income to cover any time off sick or while they are on holiday not an unreasonable expectation, employed workers are paid for this time. So many cm don't charge, some do charge a slightly higher hourly rate and some choose to charge half of or their full hourly rate. It is their choice what they do as long as they make it clear to prospective parents what their Policy is so they have the choice to use the cm or not. But this will go for all their Policies I would have thought because choosing a cm is not just down to cost.

As for £40 per day (assuming that is a min of 8 hours but often 10 hours), well lets just say my fees haven't been that low for 8 years now and the average around me is £50 to £60 per day and the Nurseries are more expensive than the £60 so £40 is reasonable.

When adding up the annual costs for a true comparison you need to look at what is and isn't provided for the quoted fee. So is Food provided or do you have to provide a packed Lunch/Tea. Are Nappies/Wipes/Bum Cream provided. Is Sun cream provided. Is the cost of all Outings and visits to Toddler Groups Soft Plat etc included or will you be asked to pay for these?

So you see just commenting that £40 a day is expensive means nothing until you brake it down work out the true costs for the whole year and compare them.

Also with the holiday I hate it when both parents and cm say 'I don't charge because they will have to pay for care when I'm on holiday'! Really? My parents usually take their holiday (yes parents do have holiday and often more than the 25 days I take), when I am on holiday. I offer to try and find cover if they need it but I can't remember when I was last ever asked. I am off for the next 2 weeks and all my parents are on holiday themselves as well. I do inform parents by the end of Jan each year so they have plenty of time to make arrangements or as soon as a parent signs a Contract if they join me later in the year. Contractually I only have to give 4 weeks notice in writing.

Also when it comes to cost of a cm I do wonder if parents ever think how much it actually costs to run as a cm every year. I do think because we are in our own home they may think that is there anyway and a few toys and a bit of petrol and some food and we are off! Its not like that at all. We have fixed costs for Insurance (Public Liability, Car and House), Data Protection, Registration with Ofsted, Gas and Electricity Costs, Purchasing new and replacing old equipment like travel cots (I have just got a new one £75), High Chairs (I need a new one (will be £50-75), Car Seats (I have just replaced one it cost £120), I will need to replace a single buggy soon so that will be another £100+ etc etc. none of which change whether we have one child or three. Then there is food, outings, toiletries like bum cream, wipes, tissues, toilet paper, washing powder for all the towels, sheet, blankets, sofa cover, buggy and car seat covers that all need washing on a daily, weekly basis, cleaning materials for cleaning all the toys and equipment and the house. Dish washer tabs and washing up liquid, paper, printer ink, Contracts, Learning Journal, cost of printing hundreds of photographs a year and the list goes on. Never mind all this cleaning and washing that I am doing after I have shut the door after an 11 hour day with the children and the printing of the photos and writing of the journals. Oh and then there is the cost of Training, I have just paid £120 for my First Aid which I will be doing on two Saturdays in Oct from 9.30am to 4.30pm + the 20 min drive to and from. The Conference I have booked at a cost of £30 (another Sat away from my family), and all the other training I do both in the evenings and at weekends through the year so I keep up to date and refreshed in my practice. Two Years ago I undertook extra Childcare Study that meant a Training day very month for 18 months on a Saturday. I actually do (recommended by Pacey my professional body 10+ years ago) take four paid Training Days a year, I may not use all of them but so much more Training is being done only during week days it does mean i can go on it if I need to. ( most employed workers attend Training Courses during the day and are paid for that day).

How does £40 a day so in terms of value for money now?

Please don't miss understand. I am not moaning at all, I love my work dearly and for me all the above is in a days work and I wouldn't change it at all. However I don't think a lot of parents have a clue as to what it takes to provide good quality childcare and be a qualified and professional childcarer doing that.

Sorry about the long post!

adp73 · 14/08/2014 12:15

Oh yes and before someone says 'but you claim you stuff off Tax'

No we don't, another miss understood thing.

Yes we add up all our Expenses and we take that amount off our Gross Income, we then take off our Personal Tax Allowance and pay Tax on what is left. We only save 20% on what we buy so every £100 we spend still costs us £80 we don't get a Refund from the Tax office for all the money we spend which is what some people seem to think happens!!

BackforGood · 14/08/2014 12:28

I was going to say the same as ADP
I'm not a CM - but a parent who has used different CMs over a number of years.
Because they are self employed, they do their contract slightly differently, so, to get a fair comparison, your sister needs to look at what is being charged, over the whole year.
Some might say no charge for their holiday, but charge more for the weeks they do work. Some include everything in their fee, some charge separately for anything they spend.
Difficult to know how '£40 per day' comes out in terms of expensive or not, as will depend on the local market (supply and demand), the part of the country you are in, and how long you consider "a day" to be - there's a big difference between a 'school day' of 6 hours and a working day with a commute either end which could be 11 hours.

The crucial thing to be clear about is if the holiday weeks the CM takes will tie in with times your sister can take her own annual leave. Less crucial if she has a back up, but essential to establish if she needs every working day of her own to be covered.

ACM88 · 14/08/2014 12:34

Exceptionally put adp

adp73 · 14/08/2014 14:51

Thank You AMC88

Goldmandra · 14/08/2014 15:13

Also with the holiday I hate it when both parents and cm say 'I don't charge because they will have to pay for care when I'm on holiday'!

Hate is a very strong word.

When I've had the opportunity to take holiday in term time I have done so in order to be available for holiday care which, TBF, can be quite an income booster. However, parents with children of school age couldn't do the same and therefore would have had to pay someone else. That may not be how it works for you but it seems fair to me.

ThinkIveBeenHacked · 14/08/2014 18:06

My CMs system seems fair: she doesnt charge when she is on holiday (takes four weeks per year with 9months notice) however she still charges if the parents are on holiday if these dont overlap with her own.

As a result, most of the parents book the same annual leave as her to ensure the financial benefit and to negate having to find alternative care.

amyhamster · 14/08/2014 18:10

Childcare in this country is a minefield
On another thread a nanny is said to be perfectly reasonable charging £10 an hour & therefore earning £120 a day
On this thread £40 a day is too expensive
Baffling

Goldmandra · 14/08/2014 18:39

£40 a day is just for one child. A childminder can earn three times that plus fees for after school children so over £120 easily.

ACM88 · 14/08/2014 19:55

goldmandra

Please see adp's eloquent post above.

Also know that we can have only so many children under 8, depending on their age, it's never as straight forward as you think. I would LOVE to make £120 profit per day!!!

Goldmandra · 14/08/2014 20:50

ACM, I am a childminder and I often have three under five plus after schoolers.

It isn't clear profit but the comparison is not £40 a day V £120 a day (which I assume would not be net pay either).

ACM88 · 14/08/2014 21:14

No I do take your point, and I understand what your saying, but going back to the original post, I don't think, a CM charging £40 a day is too much,taking into account regional differences of course.

My constant gripe is that people see us as a cheap slightly naff alternative to nurseries, and expect to pay pennies (just yesterday I was asked if I would consider charging £3p/h) but it's very acceptable for a nanny to be paid £10p/h. I'm in NLondon and charge £5.65p/h btw.

There is a general uneducated view, I've found, when it comes to what we do and what we are worth. Effectively we are a one man nursery, chef, cleaner, manager, nursery nurse and accountant all rolled into one. We are inspected and graded the same as nurseries, yet still shock when some charge £40 per day...it astounds me.

Goldmandra · 14/08/2014 21:26

I live nowhere near London and would probably either laugh at or feel insulted by the suggestion that I took a child for £3.00 per hour. That was what I was charging when I set up 14 years ago!

I definitely provide a high quality service, comparable in every way with our local nursery provision (and I hope better in some ways) and I would fully expect parents to be prepared to pay similar fees.

I think the issue of paid holidays does change that slightly as you wouldn't expect a nursery to close for four weeks of the year while still charging their full rate.

ACM88 · 14/08/2014 21:38

I know for a lot of parents, a CMs holiday is the sticking point, I guess you have to find what works for you. I don't yet have children, although i am pregnant with #1, up until now I have had 15holiday days a yr, and all bank holidays, whether i will want more next year, only time will tell! I'm not sure my longest paying clients would be happy if I was to change it...

ACM88 · 14/08/2014 21:40

And yes I did laugh...then realised she wasn't joking, I was her first call, and she genuinely thought that was what she would have to pay for a CM, it made me realise how skewed the general opinion of CMs is.

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