PRobably daft question about holidays and nannies

[TwelveLeggedWalk]

Our nanny started with us in March, two days a week. That gives her 9.5 days leave this year.

She has taken 1 day (booked off in June), and 1 (when she failed to turn up for work due to a transport crisis, but I let her have it as holiday retrospectively under the proviso that didn't happen again).

The contract says 4 days should be taken between Christmas and New Year - but looking at how the dates fall with her working week it will only be 2 days, to come out of her 2014 allowance.

It also says 2 days to be taken at our (employers) direction.

We went away in June, so there were 2 days when we didn't require her to work, and I stupidly didn't get into whether it was annual leave or not, and she's obviously been paid.

However, we're now going away at short notice again next this month, next month, and in December, so a total of 6 more days she won't be working.

How should this be handled? Is it bonus paid leave? Unpaid leave? Can I move 2 of her 'Christmas' leave days to earlier in December?

Presumably I can ask her if she can work some alternative days - so 3 days one week, 0 the next? But if she says no, which she's obviously entitled to, what do I do? Argh! Have gone all English about this and don't know how to raise it.

Unfortunately OP if you decide you don't need your nanny on certain days, you should still pay her.

If she's nice, she might agree to transfer across two days from the Christmas period. But that's not what the contract says, so she doesn't have to.

Thought if a person was contracted to x hours she should be paid whether you need her or not? And why should her holiday au allowance cater your holidays?

as above. You dont need her then you still pay.

Ok, so that's standard practice then. I genuinely didn't know, not being arsey.

How do people feel about asking her to move a couple of her days if she can? Obviously there is no incentive for her to do that if she could be paid for days she wouldn't work and potentially paid for extra days too (although in practice I doubt that's what we'd do).

No, I think itd be rude to do that. For all you know she may have another job or duties on other days of the weeks.

You could give her some Nanny related jobs to do on those days you are away: childrens laundry, shopping to stock up on arts and craft supplies, sorting through toys/books of theirs for what theyve outgrown.

Isn't that ruder? I'd feel awkward asking her to come in (its about half an hour each way) if there are no children here for her to look after, looks like I'm trying to stop her having a day off almost. Tbh I can't see her happily saying yes to that either.

You can also ask your nanny to do child related stuff while you are away.

Mine is batch cooking, sorting out toys, organising wardrobes, prepping craft projects etc.

I gave her the choice of taking holidays or working while we are away and she came up with a list of things that she could be cracking on with. As she only works 3 days with my 3 DC (all aged 3 and under) she's jumping on the chance to get ahead.

Cross posted!I'm a slow typer Ithinkivebeenhacked!

So the 4 days at Christmas are only actually two of her working days this year? So in effect she would be paid two extra days this year than the 104 days in the year that two days a week roughly works out to be?

I would as a nanny expect to only have two of those days at Christmas and the other two days at some other time, so in your case at the beginning of the month. I would only be expecting to be paid for the number of days in the whole year I would be working/ annual leave but not extra.

Maybe in January you need to look at next Christmas and how many days she needs to save to cover that period and then the rest is split between you for the year, but yes if you take more than your half you still need to pay her for those extra days off, you could ask her to go in and do some nursery duties on the extra days but most employers just give them as extra, it is not your nannies fault you are away they are available to work.

It is like your boss saying don't come in next week we don't need you but we won't be paying you either.

Hope that makes sense. Talk to her and explain she only needs to take two days at Christmas so you would like the others to be earlier in the month.

Any time off you give her of your choosing you don't need to discuss if it is annual leave, as she will be paid anyway, it is just if she takes time off that you need to know if it is annual leave or unpaid leave depending on how long for and what for.

Hope that makes sense and as I say I am a nanny and would be happy to do the days off swap.

I think you need to reword the contract so you specify that x number of days are to be taken as holiday on the dates of your choosing rather than specifying Christmas so it gives you some leeway.

Obviously you need to give sufficient notice.

asking her to come in when there are no children is perfectly fine. We get stuff like doing the bath toys in Milton / name tapes / drawer organising / toy sorting. Doesn't have to be a full day of course but there are always jobs best done with no children around. Batch cooking would be ideal for eg

Not rude at all!

Better than suggesting unpaid leave and ending up with a disgruntled nanny looking for a job elsewhere.

Especially if you position it as a great opportunity to get those niggly jobs out the way without the dc underfoot.

Surely you are comfortable with her being in your home already? Ok I know mine is already planning to play loud child inappropriate music as she does things (I suggested that she could relax a little without the dc)

Ok, this is interesting. My two have a nap most days she's here so she often sits down with a cuppa and a book during her work days anyhow. I don't particularly have a problem with this, but I don't think she feels there is a lot that needs doing 'on her watch' as it were.

Washing is fine, but she doesn't do much/any craft stuff with them. Batch cooking might work, but she hasn't done much cooking for them recently either, mainly because they tend to eat my food better (this is deeply inconvenient, not a stealth boast! ). Maybe if I got her to batch cook some stuff so they get used to her cooking?

Def get her to do batch cooking and if it helps you re heat and give it to the children when you are with them so they think it is your cooking and then when they eat it you know they will eat her cooking. Get her to make stuff you normally make anyway, that's what me and my boss did when my charge would eat something I made but not my bosses we did it the other way round and they are it for me, the just associated that food with me not her

And I've just realised I've forgotten about Bank Holidays.

So 3 days out of the 4 the contract specifies at Christmas (includes Christmas Day, as she works Weds & Thurs.

Perhaps ask her for suggestions? If shes experienced like some of the lovely people on here she might have ideas of her own.

People often respond better if you ask them what they think they should do task wise in the time, rather than giving them "directions" and she will be more likely to be happy to undertake chores/prep/batch cooking if she suggests them.

If she works weds and thurs then yes that's three days and one from next years leave (New Years day). Does the amount of leave you worked out (the 9.5 days ) come from full time 28 days or 20 days plus bank holidays as if from the latter then still 2 days leave and Christmas Day is extra as the 28 days full time leave is the min allowed.

I work out 28 /5 x 2 makes 11.2 days leave a year and as only Christmas and new year would normally be the only bh she would work and you can't round down that leave the 9.5 you mentioned before. So you give Christmas and new year as well as the original mentioned leave so still leaves you with the 2 days al needed to cover the two weds this year and two you can move.

I think it's shitty to get a nanny to come in when the children aren't there, just so that they're 'working' not 'getting extra days off'.

Mind you, I also think it's arsey when someone has a transport crisis to take a days leave off them, then carp on about it 'not happening again'. If it was a 'transport crisis' then that's what it was... it's not like she just couldn't be arsed coming in

Are you paying her through an nanny tax type agency? I hope so, otherwise her tax & holiday situation is going to be a complete shambles. You really need to get a handle on how it all works.

I'm also happy to go in and get bits done that I can't with the children around, especially re homing the broken, plastic tat in the playroom! I've even hired a carpet shampooer to clean bedroom (refluxy baby!) and playroom carpets, I also tell bosses that I'll do other rooms if they pay me!!

Most of my employers get any work that is needed done on the house while they are away so the children aren't exposed to brick dust, chemicals, loud noises or they they don't run across the newly cleaned carpets in dirty shoes so I will be there to let in workmen.

I work 11 hour days, if I go in while they are away, I do maybe 4-6 hours one or two days. I also write a nice long list, cross off what I've done even though some of the jobs take 5/10 minutes, it looks like I've been busy!!

I would also go in when bosses on holidays. I can gut the playroom and bedrooms, toy sort, clothes sort, batch cook, label clothes for school etc etc. leave a list of jobs, as long as she's aware that you don't want her in at the crack of dawn she should be fine, I used to go in and do 10-3 when my bosses were away.

OK, lets start from the basics. Her holiday year runs March - March. If you have given her 4 weeks holiday plus bank holidays then she gets 8 days (plus BH). 2 weeks (4 days) you choose, 2 weeks (4 days) she chooses. clearly you choose your 2 weeks to coincide with when you're away, she probably won't. Any extra time you are away, but she is available to work, you pay her. If your contract is the standard 5.6 weeks including bank holidays then she gets 11.2 days including BH, take off the bank holidays and whatever is left you split down the middle who chooses when it can be taken. This is assuming you have a standard contract. You do have a contract......?

So, assuming 4 weeks plus BH, she has now taken 2 days of the 4 that she gets to choose and can take 2 more, at her choosing, between now and March. I think the 2 days in June if you didn't call it AL you'll have to let those go. You are away for 6 days - so that uses up the 4 days of her AL that you get to choose, and you either give her 2 extra days paid leave or get her in to do other work (which, I agree is petty and likely to result in less flexibility from her).

Nannying is give and take. I sometimes need my nanny to do an extra hour later, I always paid her for this - then she had a few extra paid afternoons off as I got some time off work at short notice and sent her home. From then on, she wouldn't take the extra money for the extra hour. Had I made her stay her full hours, just to make the point, even though I was home from work early, I'm pretty sure she'd have charged me for the extra hours!

Nanny works 2 days per week, so Minimum holiday entitlement is 2 x 5.6 = 11.2 days. This can not be rounded down, so either .2 of a day needs to be calculated in hours or you give more than Minimum holiday entitlement.

If we said that annual leave was 12 days, then nanny and you have 6 each of your choice, though you can dictate all of them by refusing holiday requests unless it suits you.

Xmas break - contract is badly worded and needs to be revised. "working days falling on or between Xmas and New Year" may be a better way of phrasing it. Bank/Public holidays can get messy as sometimes it is assumed that they are not worked, when in fact there is no right to have them off. I expect your intention is to provide Xmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years Day off, plus any working days between.

Example if nanny is working Wed and Thursday:
Xmas 2014 is a Thursday. So nanny works Xmas Eve, has Xmas Day off, has New Years Eve (Wed) off, has New Years Day (Thur) off. So uses 3 days of holiday.

Why run the holiday year from Jan-Dec, why not March-Feb (or more likely the Start date in March to the same date minus 1, the following year - so if starting 12 March 2014, holiday year runs until 11 March 2015.

Ok, thank you those of you who have been constructive. We do have a contract, it specifies exact leave, bank holidays, etc. I don't count bank holidays in my working week, so tend to forget they are there, which is not an issue of 99% of the year as she doesn't work Mondays or Fridays.

The exact number of days/rounded up/down/dates started from etc are all specified in the cintract as notified by the agency (although, Nick I agree the Christmas to New Year bit is vaguer than it should be). My main question was what to do when you have considerably more days that you don't require a nanny for than allocated leave at employers' direction, and the answer from most of you seems to be to ask her to come in and do some child related stuff.

Honestly, if I asked her, I don't think she'd be that keen. We'll see.

As for me being arsey about her failing to turn up for work, well it was a situation that was predictable, avoidable, wasn't communicated to me or my husband properly and made no effort to come in by alternative means. I was getting on an aeroplane for 2 days away, and it nearly caused quite a serious problem for us. I've mentioned a lot of stuff I don't care about her not doing but for me reliability is No.1, so no, I can't let that just go.

When my employers take extra holiday I get time off and obviously paid

Yes if extra holiday then they could ask me to go in and clean playroom cook etc - but none ever have

Last job was 11 weeks holiday. 4 in contract but they went away lots and I got extra

Tbh I think in every job I've had over 23yrs u have had over my 4 weeks and got extra every year. Even if a week or two

She probably won't be keen to come to work when the children aren't there if the alternative is a paid day off, but if you can find child related jobs in the house she can be doing, then there is work for her to do. I would be fair and give her a shorter day, eg what is normally 8-6 could become 10-4, but still full pay. It doesn't take that much thought for her to think of a few jobs she could be getting on with if the children aren't there.