Moving country in two months...notice to nanny, is this fair?

[notasgreen]

Hi all,

Just a quick one, DH has been offered an overseas role which starts in (eek!) October. I work FT and we have a great live-in nanny who will have been with us for 2 years in Nov.

We haven't mentioned anything about the move to her yet, and won't until the contract is signed (I don't trust DH's company at all - long story), which will hopefully be by next Friday - so we are either giving her notice to finish at end of September, (two months when our contract says either party can give one) or asking her to come with us until a couple of days before her first holiday date (mid-Dec) allowing her time to decompress and pack!

I am wanting to be as fair as possible to her, as we really like her (and so do the kids). We would be devastated to lose her before we go, but would understand if she wanted to look for a new role.

However, I know she has two lots of 2.5 weeks holidays coming up over the Christmas and then early 2015 period which might make her less attractive to other families (although we would give her a fantastic reference). So, question #1, do you think that her holiday periods would make her less employable?

Question #2 - do you think there is anything we could do to make that easier/better for her and/or the prospective family?

I was thinking about offering to pay her current wage for one of those holidays...but maybe that's crazy talk.

We are happy to pay her until the end of the year, but would need her to come overseas with us for the October-mid-Dec time - so question #3 is would a normal/nice employer pay more for this if no extra hours, and in fact prob less hours are required?

We are assuming that we pay for the flights and that her accommodation is equivalent (i.e. own room with TV/broadband etc). Does that sound fair/reasonable to ask? Obvs she can say no, and we would understand - just wouldn't pay her till end of year in that case

Any advice on what people have done/agreed to would be very useful.

Thanks for reading!
Alex

Her holiday time she has booked with you is irrelevant to future employers unless she wants to keep them. She will be paid holiday by you so I am about the issue there.

I got a shock in one nanny job to be told the family were moving right away. I had 3 months notice and I can't remember how it worked out but I think I was paid holiday owing plus a bit of notice as I was able to work most of it. I was devastated as I had looked after the baby from under 6 months old until over 4 years and really loved him. It was such a bolt from the blue.

I think your about not paying her is silly. You have to give her notice so she either works it by mutual agreement or you pay it if she doesn't want to come.

Thanks for the quick reply itsfab - regarding her holidays, she definitely will want to keep them. They are special family events and she has booked and paid for her flights.

That's why I was concerned for future employers, we don't mind her having nearly 8 weeks holiday this year (mostly chosen by her, we fitted our summer holiday around her dates) - but that's b/c we know her!

What I meant about not paying her is about paying her until the end of the year. I will absolutely pay her the notice required, and any holiday owing, and the two weeks redundancy which would be required if she had hit 2 years - as I think that's fair.

But I wouldn't pay her from now until the end of the year unless she did agree to come with us. Does that make sense?

And a quick clarification - for your situation when you were given notice, did your employer pay you for the three months and then pay your notice on top?

What if you tell her giving two months notice but she then gives 1 month notice and leaves early Sept? May have more chance getting a new job starting September than one starting after xmas.

The other country - is it somewhere she would want to go? Can she go without needing a visa to work?

Until you know for sure that you will be moving, I would say nothing. Once it is finalised then tell them and present some options, such as coming with you until a set date in Dec.

If they did come with you, why not keep them on? If you would need them until Dec, does that mean you won't need childcare in Jan?

Hi Cindy, if she was to counter-offer one months notice - we would accept it and wish her all the best.

In terms of a visa, officially she wouldn't be able to work there - but I'm hoping that as we'd still be paying her in pounds, that it'd be enough of a grey area for her (and us!) not to fall foul of any laws.

I don't imagine she will want to stay on after January, as she has a long term partner who wouldn't be able to work there and I'm assuming that he wouldn't want to move.

Plus my work visa will take three months to come through, so I'm not sure that we can cope with the cost of care even if he did...

You can tell her as soon as DH signs contract but be aware she will probably get another post very quickly. So be prepared to be without a nanny before you move abroad.
Don't over think things. Keep it simple.
You could keep to contract and give I assume four weeks notice.
Entirely up to you.
A good nanny, and it sounds if she is, will succeed in finding another post easily.

A nanny works their notice period out unless the employer decides to release them early, i.e. gardening leave, in which case the employer still pays for notice period and redundancy pay if applicable.

You owe it to your nanny to give her as much notice as you possibly can.

Having two pre-booked holidays will definitely effect her employability, but I don't think there is really a lot you can do about it.

Offering to employ her until Christmas would be a nice offer I think.

When uou have signed contracts give her notice

Say to her you would like her to go with you for a few months but understand if she finds a new job to start sept

Holidays not your problem. New employers need to honour pre booked holidays - most will be fine - tho she may not get paid for them in new job if hasn't earnt them iyswim

Yes 2 weeks redundancy if there over 2yrs

I would think very carefully about offering to take her with you as an employee if there are potential visa implications, for either you or her. A clean break would be better and you may find someone locally to help out while you settle. Her future holidays are her issue to resolve with any new employer.

I would give her the contractual one months notice at the end of august so ahw finishes at the end of September.
You only need to pay her holiday pay accrued till the end of September. If she has taken more holiday than she was entitled to then you can take it back from her last wages.
You don't need to pay her redundancy pay either.

She's being made jobless and homeless completely out the blue insan why should they not give her as much notice as possible? Surely that's the decent thing to do?! I can't believe anyone could think otherwise.

I would tell her as soon as contract is signed. I would give her the choice-say you are happy for her to work up until they leave, but are also willing to have her come with you to help you settle in until xmas.
The holidays are her issue really-but if you really wanted maybe give her a bonus when she leaves which is the equivalent of one of the hols, or part of the hols. But you are in no way obligated to do that

A lot of new nanny jobs start at the beginning of September, so if you do give her two months notice, then you run the real risk of losing her before then.
That may not be a problem if you're finishing work early, but if you have to work until the end of September, pack up a house, sort out schools, a new house etc having to find a temp nanny to cover a couple of week may just tip you over the edge! If the contract says a month, then that's what I would give.

As an employer having holidays already booked wouldn't be a huge problem, but she would probably have to take one of those unpaid as most families like to chose at half the holidays. I think jkd's suggestion of covering her salary for one of those holidays is a great idea.

outraged as soon as she gets her notice then the nanny is going to put all her energy in to finding a new job and home
which leaves the op in a tricky position if the nanny gets a job and leaves before the end of the 2 months notice period, which could happen
it is still a business transaction, emplotying a nanny, and you always have to protect your own interests first

First of all, you don't know that.

Secondly, it's hard to find a job these days and a live-in job even more so. When you factor in the pre-booked holiday, I can't see it being that easy for her to find another job. There is every chance she will work her notice.

Thirdly, even if she does leave early, it will be easier for the OP to find alternative childcare/take leave for the last few weeks than it will be for the nanny to find a job and home in 4 weeks.

You do need to put your own interests first to a point, but deceiving your nanny into thinking all is fine and then pulling the rug out from under her and making her homeless and jobless with minimum notice is unreasonable, unkind and just horrible tbh. Thankfully the OP doesn't seem to share your views!

i think if the job wasnt live in then a months notice isnt so bad, but as leeds said to lose your home and job and have to find both in 4 weeks is hard

I think you have been offered some good advice!!

I agree give notice as soon as job is confirmed, if nanny happens to find a new position before and wants to leave, she has every right to do so, but I think the decent thing to do, as you already implied OP, is to give as much notice as possible. insincere 4weeks isn't necessarily enough time to find new live in position. I have 8weeks in my contract!

With regards to holiday, a nice gesture may be to offer b

...to offer bonus, if she doesn't want to come with you. Any new position should honour this holiday, if she is upfront, but it may not be paid, so would appreciate pay from you. This isn't compulsory though, just kind.

Double check employment laws, not worth getting yourselves in trouble, if she does decide to come with you. There are specialist agencies that could send you out a nanny if needed.

Good, open communication is the key, good luck!

Thanks for all the advice guys, good to know that I was on the right track. Will wait for the contract for DH and then give her notice and will offer to pay her for one of her holidays in addition to her notice.

Fingers crossed she stays, but I would understand if she didn't.

Cheers!

Probably a bit late now but I was paid until they left. Most I worked but there was 1-2 weeks left so I was paid notice there plus holiday entitlement.

FWIW I have been given notice twice in jobs - one was moving away, one was giving up work and both times I didn't even consider looking for anything else to start until the employer had definitely confirmed they wouldn't need me longer. We had to give each other 3 months notice so a contract where the parents give 3 months but the nanny can give one month is to me. I was a very loyal nanny and always put the current job first before a potential new one. There is no way I could have left an employer looking for a new nanny for just 1-2 months just because they didn't need me anymore. I stayed years in my jobs and built up a lot of loyalty on both sides.

question #1, do you think that her holiday periods would make her less employable?
Yes I do. 5 weeks of holiday in a short period of time would not be something I could facilitate. I suspect that she will not be able to secure a new start date until after her second holiday unless there is a significant gap between them.

Question #2 - do you think there is anything we could do to make that easier/better for her and/or the prospective family?
Assuming you can manage that amount of time off in a new location, you could offer her employment in your new location

I was thinking about offering to pay her current wage for one of those holidays...but maybe that's crazy talk.
Assuming it is unpaid leave that you have agreed to, it would be nice to be clear up front that you are proposing to pay her redundancy and how much before she starts to panic.

We are happy to pay her until the end of the year, but would need her to come overseas with us for the October-mid-Dec time - so question #3 is would a normal/nice employer pay more for this if no extra hours, and in fact prob less hours are required?
I would think that this depends on the location, whether there is an inconvenience factor for her or not.

Something that might be worth considering is that often there is a significant hassle factor with moving overseas and closing up/renting out your property at home. Pets in quarantine, cleaners, stuff being listed into storage, painters to supervise etc. Depends on your current set up. Absences of more than 30 days need to be notified to your insurers. You might need a house-sitter or general aide-de-camp for a few weeks. One family I know, the nanny went out on time with the kids to start school, and the mum followed when the house was shut up in the UK.