Childminder wants ££ when children are not there! Is this normal!

[Suffolkblush]

I'm going back to work Mon-Wed in a few weeks. My OH works away for a fortnight at a time on the rigs. My 3 yo daughter is at the local pre-school and my son is 7m old.

When my OH is away I would like a CM to care for DS full time and provide wrap around care for my DD before and after pre-school. I would like to use the service week on week off so that OH can also get time with the kids when he is home.

CM wants £full when the kids are there £half for the hours my daughter is at pre-school and £half when the kids aren't there at all to 'reserve' their spots. So essentially I'm looking at having to pay her £123 a week to do nothing whilst my OH spends time with the kids.

She's the only CM in my village and going elsewhere will probably mean moving my DS out of pre-school which I would like to avoid.

Is this charging style normal practice? I understand she has a business to run but it seems a bit excessive... capitalism at it's most lucrative!

Can anyone advise please?

Many thanks

Does sound more like nurseries than childminding settings, tbh.

I apologise, too. I agree that my comment was unnecessary. To explain a little about just why you got the reaction you did, we childminders have been reading unpleasant comments about extortionate childcare costs and accusations of for months, both on social media and in news reports, when the reality is very different.

Fwiw, I don't think the replies to you were particularly nasty. They were hitting back (yet again!) at the perception that childminders are raking it in, even if that wasn't what you intended to say.

Glad you got it sorted with your childminder. You really do have a good deal there - one I couldn't afford to offer.

- Not sure if I'm honest, think they are possibly more of a nursery business thing? I know they are based in two different towns and she doesn't work at either full-time. Until yesterday I have to say I wasn't even sure what the difference between the two were as most that I went to see were surprisingly similar in size/staffing/kids attending - There are more staff at my new childminders than there are at my daughters pre-school! but then I live in North Norfolk so the big city nurseries are probably on a different scale altogether

are you sure that your lo is going to a CM?
I would be very surprised if the CM had more than 1 assistant. Is it based in her own house?
I think you might be confusing CM's and small independent nurseries.

OP, there's a huge difference between a nursery and a child minder. You are getting confused about child care services and child minding, which is one of the reasons people have become so defensive. As CMs we are self employed, usually single person operations, with a finite number of spaces to fill and therefore a finite earning capacity.

The friend to whom you refer is a business woman who owns several businesses and presumably could own as many more as she wished, with infinitie earning capacity for much less hands on work with children.

I'm not dismissing her achievements as I'm sure she works hard, but she is not a childminder, nor anything like one, so your comments about her holiday home to a group of people working as actual CMs, earning £3-5 an hour per child are not only insulting but irrelevant.

Hope that explains why you have been given a hard time as well as your overly aggressive and judgmental tone.

Seems like a bit of both from what you guys are saying? It's run out of her home but she has two assistants (an older fully qualified lady and a younger trainee style lady). There were six other children there when we popped in, although I'm not sure how many she has on her books.

Anyway, clearly I'm confusing the two and my comment about my pal Mrs D was mis-directed at a (very) wrong crowd. Apologies to all CMs who are not nurseries or independent businesses.

All the cm's I've been to see here in Norfolk had huge houses and separate rooms for the childcare setting/sleeping/eating, one even had a newly built summer house in her garden just for the kids. Probably why I linked the two. These are my only experiences of childminding settings.

Tanith - Thank you x. I can imagine it's not nice to be regularly pinned as raking it in when from this thread the majority of cm's are making a living just like the rest of us. It's one of those weird thing as my cm's hourly rate is just £4.10 which is a pittance, but when you add it all up the monthly rate is over £600 which seems like a huge amount. But like you say, totally justified for the safety and happiness of the children.

TBH I think she deserves more, I've spent the last four years at home with my kids and I know what a handful (read: nightmare) they can be. Anyone brave enough to look after kids for a living deserves cake and more everyday!

Those sound like childcare on domestic premises, which are larger settings with more than one childminder and assistants. They're run like small nurseries. I work with DH, so not quite as big.

I think you're confusing the amount paid for childcare with the amount the childminder actually makes - profit, if you like.
Once you've factored in all the food, expenses, training, insurance, memberships, registrations, equipment, resources etc. it's a disappointingly small amount. You also assume that all places are filled and everyone pays on time (did I hear the echos of wry laughter around the board?)
As someone said further upthread, many don't even make enough to pay tax.

We have a reasonably large house, but not huge. When we stop minding, it will be sold - it's the only pension we have. Always supposing we can keep up the payments on it, that is.

its a bit like comparing a cleaners salary with the owner of a massive cleaning business

oh my cleaner charges a tenner an hour
no wonder she is so rich

just like my '2 cleaning business owning' friend who employs thirty cleaners. she has a big villa in Spain, dontcha know

I think I'd want to know what type of setting i was actually sending my child to before agreeing fees and contracts. Maybe that's just me.

I have to question all the 'poor childminder' posts about how little they earn

If you cm part time, with one or two kids, yeah, £3-£5 per hour isn't much.

My dc go to a cm though. She has my two 3 days a week, the oldest 3 hours of after school care and youngest 7 hours a day. I pay £130 a week for this. That's just my two.

My cm also has a 2 year old with her every day, so cost is £160 a week. Plus another 4 year old for 4 days a week for 7 hours (£130 a week) and an 8 year olds for after school care (£55 a week).

That's £475 a week during term time. During holiday she has 5 kids all day, on their respective days, at £33 a child so her income takes a massive jump.

By God does she earn it - she's fantastic with them, always on the go. Worth her weight in gold, seriously. Obviously she also has expenses, petrol, food, activities, insurance. BUT at £475 a week gross earnings (and a lot more in holidays) she's hardly on the breadline!

Obviously she also has expenses, petrol, food, activities, insurance

Take a stab at those costings for a week.

As well as the increased energy bills- heating, electric, washing powder, cleaning products.

Insurance includes car, house, contents, liability, etc.

Sofas, carpets and beds which are wee'd on etc.

Ever increasing Training Costs. Though I have to agree with Violet Hare if a childminder has the equivalent of three full timers then their income is not usually min wage even taking into account expenses.

I have never had hoards of school age children in the holidays or otherwise but there have been times when my net income has been more in a month than my Primary school teacher husbands. Yes I work hard and I work 12 plus hours a day and do paperwork and Training after work but I do have a good income.

I have to agree childminders do have to stop pleading poverty all the time.

I do earn enough to pay tax and I am always surprised that some CMs don't.

Just did a quick calculation and I make my cm's income about £27k gross.

Yes there are costs but I'd imagine that a lot of those are tax deductible which would offset quite a bit.

So yeah...not rolling in it, but it's a decent enough income IMO.

It's decent as a second income if you're married and your DH earns well. As a single parent with DCs to take care of, it's pretty average. Certainly not second home in Spain money, which is what prompted the discussion about cms being well paid or not.

I think charging for weeks your DH will be home is fair to be honest if she could otherwise fill the spot with a full-time child. Charging half for school hours is on the unfair side though - could she not provide after-school care at a slightly higher hourly rate? Then again, it's probably the same principle at work - if she had a choice between accepting children who are going to be there full-time or children who will be doing bit-and-pieces of care as required, makes much more sense to take on full-time child, both logistically and financially.

that's weird, I live in North Norfolk & the CMs I know live in 3 bed semis with small gardens.

I certainly wasn't pleading poverty but I don't know any childminders who earn enough to finance a villa in Spain! I have 3 kids so only have 3 spaces to fill which means I can't earn vast amounts and also means I have higher costs because when we go out and about and do craft activities etc I'm providing enough for 6 kids. This isn't a complaint by the way as my lack of earnings is offset by the fact that I don't have to pay for childcare and I get to attend all my kids concerts etc. I'm childminding because it fits in with my family not because I want to be rich! Jusy one last note, it's worth remembering that the amount childminders charge varies enormously from one area to another. No-one in the area I live in could charge more than around £30 a day.

Childminders aren't pleading poverty - I think that's unfair.

What they are doing is pointing out that they really aren't making the huge amounts that so many think they are. It really isn't the lucrative moneyspinner that the media (briefed by the Government) claim it to be.

If it were, the businessmen would be rushing to set up childminder agencies - in fact, now they've looked into it for themselves, most of them are running hard in the opposite direction!

And the phrase "capitalism at its most lucrative" suggests that we are the equivalent of investment bankers, rolling around in big piles of cash!

Costs have gone up hugely, my profit is down by 30% this year due to increased cost of service, rule, food, insurance, resources etc. I do earn a very good income, but on average 60% is cost and then i pay tax on the remaining profit, so lose roughly 80-% of what my gross income is.

When parents start with me their fees never go up, they are fixed, so I have some on the same fee as 11 years ago, that is lot of difference, £5 an hour then and £7 an hour now. especially when I have siblings. That's just my way of doing things. I too will have to sell my house when I retire to have a pension and all my investments have diminished and my endowments policies paid out next to nothing.

I do love my job though, even after 25+ years

Mindingalong time I agree costs have gone up in terms of running a cm business have risen.

However the general rule is 30% of gross income in expenses. It will vary a bit but frankly if your costs are regularly 60% of your gross income you need to take a serious look at what you are spending money on and raising your fees. Also HMRC would not look favourably on this if they did an investigation on you because on figures like yours you have to wonder why you bother to be honest.

Why do you have some parents on fees of 11 years ago? They must be right royally laughing every step pf the way to the bank. Their living costs have risen like yours have you should have put their fees up by now. I will aim to keep fees stable for 1 yr to 18 months after a parent joins me, as long as nothing unusual happens or there is a change in legislation that may increase my costs. If I had kept all parents fees the same for the last 11 years I would go broke!

You are not doing yourself or other cm any favours by doing this.

Why on earth do you fix fees for so long? Also means your hourly income
Varies from Family to family - why not charge the same for all

If you are taking out to clubs etc then surely your fee needs to go up

EVery thing increased from food to petrol to household bills so that need to be taken into consideration

Mindingalongtime - I know a CM who does the same as you do and leaves all parents on the same rate. The only thing I kept the same for existing parents was when I changed from hourly to daily rates.