Is this a fair wage?

[shimmymummy]

We're going to be hiring a nanny in January and have found a girl we really like. She is level 3 qualified and currently working in a nursery. She wants to get into nannying but has no nannying experience - by her own admission she has never cooked, or done housework (for children). But everyone has to start somewhere right? We're happy to give her a chance and teach her cooking etc. She's babysat our son quite a few times - he adores her, he will have started school by the time she starts and our baby will be 10months old. She'll look after the baby for two long days and two short days a week and do wrap-around care for our son on the two long days. A total of 40 hours per week.

We worked out our budget and asked her what she would expect - she said take-home of c. £1000 a month. We plan on offering her around 17k gross a year with a payrise after she has developed her nannying skills. This works out as about £1100 per month (net), so a bit more than she asked for. Does this seem a fair wage though? Considering she hadn't any nanny experience. I don't want to be unfair but tbh its about what we can afford right now. We are also going to give what I've been told is a generous holiday entitlement (for 40 hrs) of 22 days + all the bank hols. We live in Maidenhead.

Oh, and this is a live-out position.

Sounds good to me.

The only thing you need to be aware of is that nannying seems to be a job where pay rises a lot in the first few years iykwim. The magic number for agnecies is two years experience, so there is a big difference between no nannying experience and 2 years nannying expereince, but not that much difference between 2 years and 10 years. It just means that she might want a pay rise the first few years, so don't pay the top end of what you can afford straight off, allow for increases.

17k over 40hrs is just over £1200 net a month on a basic tax code and well over nmw - which she is prob on working in a nursery - so you could offer lower and then Payrise later on

40hrs at just over nmw gross is £1k take home - prob where she got her figure from - ie to make sure she is earning same as she did at nursery

I was going to suggest £8 an hour, so the salary you have in mind is fine.

The holidays looks to be a bit more than statutory minimum, so that is fine. Just be careful about how you are doing it as it is probably better to do in hours not days, as the hours worked varies. Also there may be some bank holidays that are not on a working day, so they have those off anyway.

Thanks for your in out everyone - I've been told by a nanny agency that holiday entitlement includes bank holidays. 40 hrs pw = 22.4 days / 224 hrs. So 22 days (although we'll prob give 224 hrs as suggested), with bank hols on top - that is very good (an extra week that we have to provide). Does that sound right?

In out = in put!

I was hiring a nanny earlier this year. The agency advised that you can expect to pay £8-12/hour (outside London). It seems that from what you've said she would be at the £8 end. Not sure how this fits with what you're proposing

40 x 5.6 = 224

Minimum holiday is therefore 224 hours.
As the hours per day varies you can not say how many days that would be.

If you do not want them to work on a bank holiday that occurs on a day they work, then they takevthe usual hours for that day off - so you deduct it from the 224 hours.

As long as you are giving 224 hours or more as paid time off it is fine.

Sit down with a calendar and work out which days you definitely won't need them to work. Add up those hours then that will leave a number of hours which can be taken by mutual consent.

I'm a qualified nanny and have 15yrs experience. I work 8.30 till 6 4 days a week and take home just over £1330. Make sure you have included that you will pay the nanny's tax (about a months wages every 3 months) and ni. Also if you wish your nanny to be registered (so you can pay in childcare vouchers) she will need a first aid cert and it's about £100 for registration which the employer would usually pay for.

Just in case you do end up giving the holiday in days, you are not allowed to round it down. So it can be 22.4 days or 23 days but not 22 days as you posted above OP.

I happen to be local to you and do think it is a tad low but if that's what you can afford then offer and see what she says.

Donkir, they won't pay the nannies tax, they will deduct it from the nannies gross salary. They should though keep in mind that a nanny will cost more than just the salary, things like Employers NI, activities, mileage payments do make the overall cost of a nanny higher than salary alone.

I don't know about wages in your area.

The holidays is standard and bear in mind that many nannies get extra holidays, if for example work for doctors or for families with second home abroad.
Also bear in mind that it is very early now for january and if you want ti secure her availability you need to offer something attractive. I 'm sure she can learn how to make macaroni cheese or a fish pie from now till january if she is smart.

Thanks everyone. I think then we'll offer what we originally thought and a little more that the soon-to-be nanny has requested, then pay rises with experience gained. It works out at about 7.70 ph gross. I've been using the Mr Anchovy calculator so I can see the true employers cost. She doesn't drive (and doesn't really want to) we are ok with. She has the relevant first aid and safeguarding quals and we'll pay her Ofsted registration (although the nanny agency I talked to said not to).

A bit confused about holiday though as I thought we were offering a bit of a perk. Nanny tax says:

"When caluclating holiday entitlement, bank holidays are included: a full time nanny (50hrs) will have a statutory minimum of 28 days including bank holidays. Therefore if the nanny takes all the bank holidays off, of which there are usually 8 per year, the nanny will have 20 days remaining."

Nanny is entitled to 22.4 days including bank hols. We want to offer her 22 days plus bank hols - coming in at 30 paid days holiday per year (yes will convert to hrs but my head isn't in calculation mode). She will not work bank hols and wants the time off between Xmas and New Year which is fine with me as I have to take that time off. Does this look like a nice extra of do nanny employers generally not include bank hols in holiday entitlement?

You have not told us what the working days are, so there could be very few bank holidays that actually occur on a working day if they are not working on a Monday.

Someone working Mon-Fri has 8 bank holidays, but someone working Tue-Fri may only have a couple. Most bank holidays are on a Monday. Good Friday is always a Friday. Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years Day vary in the day of the week.

NannyTax are wrong to say a full time nanny (50 hours). They should have said a full time nanny (Mon-Fri).

If a nanny worked 50 hours Tuesday to Friday, then they would not get 8 bank holidays per year.

It is the confusing days with hours... they are not the same thing. You either calculate things in days, or hours, not a mixture.

When you have a nanny who works different hours on different days, you need to use hours. If they did 4 days per week, same number of hours each day, then you can use days.

Many nanny employers in my view give 6 weeks holiday, some offer even longer. Personally I do not see bank holidays off being a perk. I used to work in a shop, so I am used to working on a bank holiday.

For some people bank holidays off is important, to others it is not.

1. Agree a gross wage (as that is better from your point of view and if tax goes up she suffers the loss not you).
2. I would pay a bit less until she's been with you for 3 months in case she is a bit unreliable or always off sick claiming SSP etc.
3. The figures on the thread sound about right. We also paid for ours to learn to drive and took her out on hours and hours of driving practice when we needed her to drive as the oldest child went to school and that paid off - she stayed 10 years with us.
4. I would start with the legal minimum for holiday and express it as a number of days off including bank holidays so there is no confusion about weeks when there is a bank holiday but not on a day she works.
5. Worth putting in her written contract that she is paid SSP after her 3rd day off sick so that is clear.

NannyTax says

"All employees in the UK are entitled by law to 5.6 weeks holiday per annum. For a full-time employee that is 28 days off per year, of which 4 weeks is standard leave and 1.6 (or 160% of the working week) is 8 of the bank holidays."

So whatever you are reading is not what they have on their website today.

Your nanny is not full time, so you need to be looking at what applies for part time workers. In your case, due to the hours per day not being equal, it is 5.6 x hours worked per week.

i would use 4 days for your nanny rather then hours, just makes it easier, esp if 2 long and 2 short, assuming as 40hrs you have maybe 2 11/12hr days and 2 8/9hrsdays

which nanny agncy told you not to pay for ofsted , most nannies including myself wont pay for it as it is no benefit to us at all

can be a pain being paid several times a month plus being inspected, esp if you say to family xyz needs doing and they dont and doesnt save us any money, just the employers - hence why they should pay the cost rant over

holidays, in last job i got 11+ weeks paid as family went away every half term, 2 weeks at xmas, summer,easter plus my 2 weeks - was fab :)

Ok so in hours. For 40 hrs a week the nanny is entitled to 224hrs of paid leave a year, we are offering 240 hrs (so equiv of 6 weeks I think).

Working days are mon (7-7) tues (9.30 - 5.30) thurs (7-7) & fri (9.00 - 5.00).

Does this sound right?

I just thought an extra weeks holiday would be nice as she's starting lower on pay scale and she has stated she wants all bank holidays and the 24th Dec - 2nd Jan off each year. so in effect we are saying she can have all the bank holidays off on top of her stat holiday entitlement.

Perhaps I should look at what days the bank holidays fall on and work out the hours and add that to the 224 instead?

Thanks Jane - those area really useful tips! Other than providing d extra holiday to be nice we're also doing it as I get a lot of holiday at my work - 45 days a year - which I mostly want to spend with my kids! It works for me to give extra holiday, and this girl does like her holiday, it's important to her.

Still a bit confused as to whether we should give holiday in days or hours though

Not really willing to fork out for driving lessons but yes my husband could help with driving practice is she wanted to go down that route (I am currently learning, paying for two sets of lessons may break the bank)!

Re Ofsted (childcare vouchers) - we were thinking of using Nanny Tax or Nanny Payroll - won't they just sort out our vouchers and pay our nanny in one go at the end of the month (or will she get it in bits? That's a bit rubbish.

The hours sounds fine.

The 224 is the statutory entitlement. You are not adding on the bank holidays to it, that figure already includes allocation for bank holidays. By increasing to 240 hours she gets another day and a bit, or two days if she takes that extra 16 hours as Fridays.

Yes, I would sit down with a calendar and work out for the next year when all the holidays she wants off actually occur. Gov.uk has a lost showing dates and day of the week.
Looking at it, none between now and Dec 2016 are on a Wednesday, all bank holidays from now till then will be on one of her working days.

I don't really get what you are trying to do. Maybe all she wants to know is that she does not need to come to work on a bank holiday, which you can agree to do. If the bank holiday is a Monday, it will use 12 hours of holiday. If it is Friday it uses 8 hours.

For the total hours of holiday you can pick any figure you like, as long as it is at least 224 hours.

The important thing to keep track of is how many hours holiday has been taken as if they wanted a Tuesday off it is less hours than if they wanted a Monday off.

In all my nanny jobs I've always had bank holidays off and my statutory holiday. So not sure she will see it as a massive perk but I think the money is very good to start from. Good luck.