What do parents of school children do, who use a CM for after school care only in term time, in school holidays?

[allhailqueenmab]

I would welcome some real life perspectives on what is realistic here.

I have a pre-schooler and a school child. We pay the CM to take them both full time in most of the school holidays. We pay a little more than in term time, but I feel that we pay her a decent amount already in term time as she has our pre-schooler - it is almost like paying a retainer for her availability in holiday time (not formally but that is how it is in my head)

when I have two school children then surely term time care should be much cheaper.

What do parents of such children do in holidays?

can CMs or nurseries take children for holidays only? How can they have availability without the income the rest of the year?

How does this work? Please tell me what you do!

thanks

I'm sorry but I don't really understand what you're asking. Do you pay a set hourly fee per child during term time and a higher set hourly fee per child during the holidays?

Surely care for the school aged child all day during the school holidays is why it costs more during that time.

My dcs go to a cm in term time, but I work in a school, so am lucky enough to not need childcare in the holidays. However, my cm has children who are with her in the holidays - they have a different contract.

We have a term time contract and pay a higher hourly rate. Those with a year round contract, pay less.

Having said that, both rates are hourly, so of course termtime is cheaper, which ever contract you are on, as the child is with the cm for less time

If I need a full day in termtime( INSET days, strike days, snow days etc) I pay more as they are there all day.

Do you know what you are charged for each individual child in term time and holidays?

I also don't really understand. Surely the money you pay during term time is for looking after the preschooler rather than being a retainer? If you can give us the actual mounts and the times when she looks after them it would be a lot easier.

I do take school children for just the holidays. That is because my main income comes from the under 5s who attend all year round, and the holiday money I get for the older ones is like a nice bonus.

Thanks, busy day, that is what I was wondering. Surely CMs need preschoolers to make a living? And therefore, how do they have space for school children in non-term time?

Therewere5, no I don't pay an hourly rate. I pay a day rate which changes depending on whether she is looking after my preschooler, plus doing after school care for the other one; or both full time (school holiday times)

Preschoolers and after schoolers have different ratio requirements and so one doesn't necessarily though it can do) affect the other.

CMs can usually have 6 under 8s, with no more than 3 of those being early years and a maximum of one of those wearily years being under 12 mths.

I think the confusion is over why you feel you're paying a retainer. From what I can make out, you have your younger child there for a full day all year and your older child after school during term time; full day during the holiday. Surely you're simply paying for the service you use? I don't understand why you'd regard this as a retainer.

You are right in that you will pay less with two school aged children (a 4 year old is counted in the school-age ratios once he or she is in full time education). However, your childminder will then probably take on a younger child as she will have an Early Years vacancy.

Does that answer your question?

It will all depend in the childminder's ratios and other factors like space in her car. I can fit a maximum of 6 children into my car. Two of those seats are taken by my own children so that leaves 4 for minded children. I earn the most from preschoolers so I keep 3 seats aside for them. Ofsted will not allow me to have more than 3 preschoolers at a time so that leaves one remaining seat in my car that I can use for a school aged child during holidays and/or after school. Hope that makes sense.

My son goes to a childminders who only works term time. He is 18 months and my husband and I work year round so either we take time off during the holidays or the grandparents look after him. We decided to do this because the CM is a friend of ours and we would rather our son was with someone we knew than at a nursery. There are often adverts on Gumtree from students looking for summer work caring for children which I would consider an option although we haven't needed to do that yet.

Sorry, misunderstood your question. Ignore what I wrote.

I'm confused too as surely you expect to pay more in the holidays for 2 children at home all day vs 1 at home & 1 at school during term time?
I now have just 1 school child year round 4 days a week & she pays £21/day term time & £54/day in the holidays - if mum chooses not to send her every day in the holiday I still charge as that's her decision not me closing. This leaves me with 3 other vacancies in the holiday which I try & fill most days but sometimes end up with just 1 or 2 children or might take the odd day off. Not all CM's like to fill every vacancy as 3 pre-school & 3 school age (plus any over 8's) is hard work and course not everyone needs the income of FT.
Not sure if that answers your question maybe post again if not

We pay more in the holidays than in term time. Term time my child care rate is a full day of child care for the pre schooler, plus pre and after school care for the school aged children.

Holidays I pay a full day of care for the lot. Ouch. I stagger my leave for the holidays.

Alternatives are holiday clubs via nurseries, places are often given preferentially to children who attended the nursery but there may be spaces, or full day camps like Kings Camp.

Depending on the cost of your childminder these are likely to be comparable or a little cheaper, but not much. Also depends on your hours. There are a number of day camps that run 9-4 if your work is flexible enough.

but I feel that we pay her a decent amount already in term time as she has our pre-schooler - it is almost like paying a retainer for her availability in holiday time

The "decent amount" will be what you are contracted to pay, I get the feeling you think you're paying too much somewhere along the line. How can it be a retainer of shes actually providing childcare though?

Thanks everyone.
Yes of course I expect to pay more in holidays. what I am wondering is: when I no longer have a pre-schooler, can I expect her still to be available to do full days in holdays? as I will be paying her less in term

I don't suppose anyone knows the answer as it is just: ask her! but I wanted to hear from people with experience what usually happens.

If she has space for both in the holidays, I'm sure she'll take them.

My cm originally said the contract for my school age dd was term time only. However she has space during holidays so is happy to negotiate on a day by day basis, which suits me as I only pay for what I need. In the holidays things are v flexible as I take extra time off, we go away and I make ad hoc arrangements for family and friends to have dd.
We start by me asking for the dates I want and if she can't do them she will offer alternative dates or I go and make different arrangements.

My cm takes bookings for holidays, as many people use a mixture of their own leave, family and childcare, so don't want the whole holidays ( esp in 6 week hols)

She also takes her own holidays then, so isn't available all the time .

Oh, I see what you mean now

As you say, you'd need to ask her, but what you suggest is a pretty standard arrangement. I have term-time only contracts so the holiday children tend to even things out. Plus, of course, both children will be counted in the after school ratio so won't affect the under 5s ratio.

So long as you tell her what you want to do in plenty of time, I should think it will be fine. It's nasty surprises at the last minute that are difficult to accommodate :)

Surely you will need after school care for them both during the term time as you need it now for your older child? And then full days for both in the holidays.

This is quite a standard type of contract with cm who provide wrap around /after school care term time and then all day in the holidays. You will ob pay more in the holidays as they will be there longer hours.

A childminder can take a certain number of under 5 's plus a certain number of over 5's. This means they have space for the over 5's in the holidays. I currently have a preschooler and a school child at a CM. I pay after school hours for the 6 year old during term time and a full dates worth of hours during the holidays even if I don't use her for the full holiday. I think this is fairly standard practice but obviously each CM can tailor their contract as they wish. When LO starts school in Sept, the arrangement will be the same for both. LO will just be part of Cm's after school ratio count leaving her space to fill in her preschool ratio count. Hope that's what you are asking

We're in Scotland so slightly different but not much. We're allowed a total of 6 of whom a max of 3 under 5. When it comes to school holidays we can take the older kids who are after school term time as we are allowed 6. It has no impact on the pre schoolers as all our pre school places are filled all year round.

We do have more than three after schoolers in total as not all come every day, but because many parents use their own annual leave during the holidays we've so far always been able to accommodate all of our after school kids in the holidays and sometimes take extras if we have space.

Ahh I see now what you mean.

If you were one of my parents I would offer you one of two contracts when both children were at school:

1. Year round contract: guaranteed care all year round, slightly lower hourly rate but if you can't tally your holidays with mine you still pay even when you're away

1. Term time only contract + book in holiday care on an ad-hoc, first come first served basis. Most of my school children are on this sort of contract either because parents work in schools themselves or have other child are options (eg family, cheaper holiday camps etc) as back-up if I'm not available or for variety.