Negotiating holiday with new nanny when you can't be flexible - what should we do?

[NannyQuestions]

We have just found a new nanny to care for our two sons four days a week when I go back to work from maternity leave.

We have not yet signed contracts but we're about to draw one up. The nanny has now emailed to ask for ten days' holiday in a few months' time. It's not yet booked but she would like to arrange the time off. Obviously in principle this is fine, but the time she has requested is in the middle of term time. As we are both university teachers we need someone who can agree not to take holiday in term time if at all possible. We explained this at the interview and she agreed.

As it turns out, the period she has asked for is especially tricky for us as my husband will be out of the country, so even if I can get a day off here and there, he won't be able to help out, and we have no back-up cover.

I have two concerns - firstly, that if I tell her she can't book the holiday she'll feel annoyed (she's clearly done the right thing by asking us in advance and before booking). But secondly, I'm worried she doesn't realise how important the term-time thing is. It's really vital to us to have someone who can be completely reliable in term time, which for us is effectively only about half the year. In our previous nannyshare we had an informal (not contracted) agreement that the nanny's chosen weeks of holiday (two out of four) would not be taken in term time and this worked fine.

I feel we've already made some concessions - for example after we offered her the job she asked for more money - only a small increase on what we were offering but we were already pretty much at the limit of what we could afford. We agreed to the increase because we liked her and figured we could make it work financially, but we are in no position to pay for back-up care during the period in question.

So, what do you do when you just can't be flexible about holiday? How do I communicate this without sounding like a dragon but making it clear how important it is? Any other thoughts on the situation? Thanks in advance and sorry this is so long.

My suggestion would be to find a back up cover but I see this wouldn't work financially. I am a nanny and my employers have a back up for if I am ever sick, on holiday or just generally need a day off. They are also in the same profession as you and the father travels ALL the time too! My suggestion would be to make it clear that term times would be particularly difficult for you, but to also maybe suggest some dates during the term time that would be a bit easier for you (when your DH is at home and not travelling), as she may need the term time due to a cheaper holiday or something. If this really isn't possible at all then just say it would be impossible so not during term time please.
You could find a back up who is a student who will often charge a lot less than an actual nanny :) good luck!

My suggestion would be to find a back up cover but I see this wouldn't work financially. I am a nanny and my employers have a back up for if I am ever sick, on holiday or just generally need a day off. They are also in the same profession as you and the father travels ALL the time too! My suggestion would be to make it clear that term times would be particularly difficult for you, but to also maybe suggest some dates during the term time that would be a bit easier for you (when your DH is at home and not travelling), as she may need the term time due to a cheaper holiday or something. If this really isn't possible at all then just say it would be impossible so not during term time please.
You could find a back up who is a student who will often charge a lot less than an actual nanny :) good luck!

I'm worried she doesn't realise how important the term-time thing is.

That is what I would concerned about as well. She has not come to interview, or telling you at drawing up contract stage, saying that she had holiday booked from x date to y date. She is instead coming to you after having known the restrictions about when holiday can be taken and yet is asking to take holiday during the restricted period.

Could you give her a date range in which she CAN take holiday? Maybe you could say that it is not possible to take time off during term time but the next available time when it could be taken is x to y. It may not go down well but I feel you need to start as you plan to go on.

You said term time only and this wasn't previously booked holiday. Say no and explain again why. you need to know now if she just doesn't get it and this will be an ongoing issue.

I'm worried she doesn't realise how important the term-time thing is

No, she obviously doesn't - so you need to call her and make clear she can never take term time holidays, put it in the contract, and make sure she does understand and is happy to agree to those terms.

Sorry no term time

Could you give her a more than usually generous holiday allowance but it has to be taken out of term time?

You could always agree but only as unpaid leave during term time so you can pay for a cover nanny. This might change her mind or at least prevent it in the future.

If you made it clear that the holiday can only be taken in school holidays and she is already asking for time off then I would say no and tbh think about finding a new nanny if contracts aren't signed

A day off once in a blue moon say for friends wedding /funeral etc is diff and most employers would try to sort out cover - but not for 2 weeks

Personally I wouldn't ever take a job where I couldn't take my holiday when I wanted to - ie cheaper months when kids at school

You need to tell her that unfortunately holiday in term time is not possible. If that's a problem for her then she's not the right nanny for you.

Big red flag to me - asking for more money after the interview. Big red flag number 2 - asking for term time holiday. If she is making these demands before she has even started, what is she going to be like when she's got her feet under the table. I would find another nanny.

Thanks very much everyone for your replies.

I think this raises red flags for me too. I am wondering whether I didn't make the no term-time holidays thing clear enough at interview, but we definitely mentioned it and explained why. Also, our terms are shorter than school terms, so it is still possible for her to take holidays during cheaper periods when children would be in school, e.g. in early July and September. We are more than happy to be flexible about the odd day here and there (and of course emergencies) but ten days off in a chunk is just unworkable.

I am tempted to carry on looking but it feels harsh to withdraw the job offer based on this alone, what do you think? It really is a deal-breaker for us but in a way I'm more concerned that she will say OK to the holidays thing but then feel resentful and we'll start on a bad foot.

I would go with phoebes suggestion- allow it but only as unpaid so you can afford alternative cover - that will I'm sure mean that she will only take it when needed!

Just be up front. Say it doesn't work for you. Perhaps she was under the impression that those dates might come under your extended holidays? If she doesn't get it you will need a new nanny to be honest.

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I'd walk away. This is one of the most important conditions of the job for you and she's seeking to change it before she's even started. I wonder if she's hoping you'll pull out so she's not the bad guy?

Aargh.

I'm in the same profession, and what we did was say to all applicants was that holiday could not be taken between October and March due to the nature of my job. We then wrote this into the contract of the nanny we offered the job to. It's worked fine so far, particularly as our nanny has school aged children herself so there are really only the half terms to cope with. I've allowed her to come to work with her youngest sometimes during those weeks.

Having said that, it seems that the restrictions of academia haven't sunk through for this nanny so I would simply tell her no, or offer it unpaid to make it clear that you still need cover as you won't be taking simultaneous holiday. If you think this is the start of problems, I'd keep looking.

Does she know when the Uni terms run?
You've said no term time hols, but does this actually translate into when she can take hols?
What would happen if you responded with the Uni calander, and asked HER if sticking to hols in the uni holidays is going to be a deal breaker for the contract?
At least she asked before booking - it might be miss understanding. Are the dates near a Uni break?

I would contact her and make it very clear that term time holidays are a no, as you stated at interview, and that if that is an issue for her then she needs to tell you now so that you can find another nanny. It was made clear to me that I couldn't take holiday in (school) term time in one of my jobs (I work for a teacher) and therefore, I don't even think of it. I agreed to those terms at interview and it's written in my contract. She should be thinking the same way and if she has an issue with it, should not have accepted the job offer. Obviously emergencies would be catered for if I needed a day or so off for one, but not holiday.

You just have to be honest I think- if she gets annoyed, that's kind of tough luck. Unless you have some wonderful family members close by who can fill in, I don't think there is any other solution! :( x

You made it clear there were no term-time holidays, you also offered her a salary which she accepted and then renegotiated. Now she is reneging on the holiday issue - and she hasn't even started work for you yet! I would withdraw the job offer, this woman is going to make your lives more difficult (and poorer) and you will be on edge wondering what she is going to raise next.

Thanks again everyone.

I have emailed her to explain the situation clearly and sending the university calendar as suggested. If this is going to be a problem we need to know now - but it may just have been a misunderstanding.

Fingers crossed...

When I was working for a firm some years ago, I was involved in the interview process for a trainee.

One candidate outshone the others and we offered her the job. She then tried to renegotiate the agreed salary and a small change in the agreed job description.

My manager immediately withdrew the job offer. He said that if she was going to mess him about before she'd even started working for us, he could guarantee she'd continue to mess him about for evermore.

Whether or not he was right, I don't know, but you are the employer and you have reservations now. I think you should listen to your instinct.

I don't think you should withdraw your job offer, unless you have other concerns...maybe she assumed that it was far enough in advance for you to find cover. At least she told you now!

I do agree that she has to be made fully aware what term tim only means! X

Some people see the period between accepting a job and signing the contract as an opportunity to renegotiate the terms of the job that they find distasteful and it sounds like your nanny is testing the waters on this front. If you can't accommodate holidays during term-time, then reiterate this and tell her that those will be the terms of her employment and she needs to decide whether she can accept them or not. If you make an exception this time you'll be forever making exceptions, because the precedent will be set. This is a key part of her employment with you, so stick to your guns and if she won't back down, keep looking.