Prospective Nanny has requested to be self-employed?

[PlinkyPlonker]

I posted on here a few weeks ago asking whether my nanny job could be self-employed. I was given some helpful links, I read up, I then discounted the idea of having a nannyshare and interviewed on the basis that I would be employing the nanny as an employee.

I haven't offered the job yet but my preferred candidate has requested she be self-employed when we discussed pay rates and I asked her if she had a preferred nanny payroll provider. I'll have a more indepth conversation with her when I offer the job. But having read more I'm not sure if she could be self-employed after all.

She already has one job (weekends). I am offering part time hours but the days I want someone to work arent the same each week. Eg, one week could be Monday, Tuesday and the next might be Weds, Thurs, Friday. If the nanny is planning on offering her services to other families too (which is the bit I want to discuss with her) then might she be right in wanting to be self-employed? I have already discussed with her that because of how our shifts work there is some flexibility - if she gives prior notice of days she wants off then we can work our rotas to accomodate that without her having to use up holiday.

On the one hand I really don't mind how I pay her, whether employed or self-employed. I would use a payroll company at least for the first year anyway. But if she wants to be SE - which I think she is going to stick to - should I still be insisting on employed status?

She'd never be able to get work elsewhere if she didn't know which days she'd be free each week. Perhaps she is self-employed in the other job and it would be easier to put this in with that in her tax return etc?

Yes, maybe its just how she is currently set up. Shes a very experienced nanny and nursery worker I'm not sure if she has something else lined up - like nursery supply work as we do know our rota weeks in advance, so that sort of work might be possible - as I had another candidate who does supply work and she was happy she could combine the two jobs. I will ask about her current job and perhaps get her to have a look at the tax info I was given and see what she thinks after that.

there is a guide to whether someone can legitimately call themselves self employed

click here

and here

I am not sure what the implications for you would be if you agree to go down the se route and then at some point the IR come along and disagree! you should find that out.

I'd be concerned that she intended to evade tax and that I might end up, as the employer, with a massive tax bill.

I'd be really wary of that because of IR35 legislation: www.hmrc.gov.uk/ir35/

Yes thats what I am the most wary about - I really don't want future problems with the tax office! Its a bit of a pain as she was by far the best candidate and ticks just about every box. Hopefully it can all be cleared up when I do speak to her, I was just keen for others opinion and info before I did. Thanks for input and links
OddFodd I was working as a contractor when IR35 came in and it still gives me shivers, so yes I am keen to avoid crossing paths with it again!

If you need her to commit to specific shifts, then her being s/e will not work for you at all.

By definition, her being self-employed means she does not have to commit to the hours you need her for.

Just phone HMRC and ask them, they'll know better than we will and if there is ever a dispute you can say that you checked with them and they OK'd it.

Just phone HMRC and ask them, they'll know better than we will and if there is ever a dispute you can say that you checked with them and they OK'd it.

I'm self employed. Loads of people are. Our work and hours change. It is not illegal. It's normal for many. Go for it. It also saves you all the hassle of registering with HMRC etc.

Doing SA Tax Return as someone who is employed and self employed is easy. So doubt that is the reason.

If you asked them to work a particular day, can they say no? Do you need commitment from them, such as doing x number of hours per week or per month.

Is it worth getting a status decision? At least if HMRC wrote that it was ok you would have something if it came back to you at a future time.

She could say no if it was a month or more in advance as we can be quite flexible before our rota is issued. But I do need a certain amount of commitment that will vary between 1 and 4 days each week. It would be harder to accommodate if it was last minute that she wanted specific days off. I think I will consult tax office first and get their view before I have conversation with her and get my facts lined up as I'm not sure how informed she is on the legal issues of her being self employed.

If she couldn't do a shift would you be happy for her to send someone else to do it for her? That is one of the biggest tests used by HMRC to decide the 'status' of a worker. Just because she's self-employed in one role it doesn't mean she's self employed in the work she does for you. I'd be careful if I was you OP, maybe check with HMRC first.

I agree with Best Friend.

She has to be employed if you dictate the hours & it's her you want not anyone else.

A self plotwd person would have to provide their own work equipment, would be able to dictate when the service was provided eg. You employ a cleaner who comes on a Tuesday morning but one week they say sorry I'm away, I'm coming Wednesday instead or sorry I'm away, my colleague will come clean instead.

The only nannies who can truly be self employed are ones like maternity nannies who agree short term contracts or ad hoc child care type nannies.

No I don't think I would be happy for someone else to do her shift - but then I wouldn't be happy for that to happen with a childminder either.

I will speak to the tax office and get their take on it before I speak to the prospective nanny. If they say no then I can pass that info on when I talk to her. I may be blowing it up into a non-issue and she'll just say no problem . But at interview I started discussing payroll and terms and she was quite clear about wanting to be self employed.

Childminders can get other registered childminders to help cover holiday/sickness etc. plus they work out of their own home & set their own terms hence being self employed.

pictures yes I know. I don't think I'd be happy with another childminder covering but that's probably just because my DC are so young and DS in particular would probably have a freak out. I can see it wouldn't be an issue for older kids though.

I initially thought my nanny job would be a self-employed one. Then got some useful info on MN on the hows and whys this wasn't correct and I've interviewed on the basis that our nanny will be employed and I've factored in employers NI etc on top of gross rates. It's just thrown me now that one candidate is keen on being SE but I'm very wary of ending up with an added tax bill etc.

But now I've learnt I can do a status request from the tax office and that will confirm one way or another.

Sending someone in their place would not be always relevant... for example: a babysitter, a gardener. Whilst it is one of the things that is looked at, the bigger picture also needs to be considered.

I can't actually see why a Maternity Nurse is permitted to be self employed - as they are doing a fixed term contract, they are not easily replaceable by someone else, they don't provide any tools of work, they often reside at the persons home for a lot of the time.

I think that HMRC will look at the bigger picture, such as how many clients they have, the ad-hoc nature of the work, the obligation to do the work when requested to do it. The employment status manual is huge. Wish they would do a section on nannies, maternity nurses, babysitters... would really help to have guidance that status officers and everyone else could look up. They have sections about Cleaners, Nurses, Careworkers, Barristers, all sorts of jobs but not anything on childcarers.

I am wondering what advantage she feels she has by self employed... is she perhaps wanting to charge you a lot more than you would be offering an employee?

Are they legally only allowed to be self employed - such as due to a visa/immigration restriction?

PlinkyPlonker - if you have not already found it, the status team contact details are here on HMRC website.

Has she said what fee she would be charging you? Has she said anything about expecting paid time off?

Thanks will have a look at contacting the status team tomorrow. I started off discussing holidays etc. it was only when I asked about who her preferred payroll company was that she said she would like to be self-employed. I asked her what pay rate she was looking for but she was vague so I asked what her last rate was (£9ph) and then I offered £8ph as she's now NWOC and that was okayed.

I wonder whether she is clear on all the implications of being self employed. She mentioned that she had an accountant friend to do her returns etc but I didn't think to question further at that time. I'm pretty sure her immigration status isn't an issue but I didn't plan to do a certificate/id check until offering job and I don't even know how that would work if she were to go self employed.

Sounds to me that you will be an employer and you dictate the days and hours

Why does she want to be se?

She can still be employed by you and se for other jobs

If she is se then she gets a gross figure so she is happy for £8phg????