Do you pay your childminder when you are on holiday?

[workshyfop]

DD goes to a childminder for 3 hours each day after school. We also discussed her going there for some of the school holidays but as I and DH get a fairly generous amount of annual leave we'll be able to cover a lot of the school holidays ourselves. Apparently though, the CM expects us to pay her for 10 hours/day for any holiday we take in the school holidays (and we are contracted to do this). Is this reasonable? How do your CM arrangements work? I'll be looking to change the contract but wanted to get an idea of how other CMs worked before having the discussion.

Hi, I used to be a child minder and child minders contracts vary greatly.

At the start I gave 2 weeks holiday at no charge.

When I discussed this with a child minder friend she said I was crazy not to charge as it would be a huge reduction in my annual income.

Also if a child minder lets one parent off with paying holidays, then all parents will expect the same.

It would make such an impact on finances.

I do understand your point as you don't want to pay for a service you're not getting.

I would suggest a term time contract if you can cover all holidays or maybe ask her to consider a retainer fee instead of full pay?

If she's very good at what she does and your DD loves being with her, I would be tempted to pay her the going rate. A good childminder is gold (imo).

I think you should pay her a retainer at the very least. It would be difficult for her to find a temporary arrangement to cover the time you are away. Why should your CM not be paid, because you are away?

BTW I am not a childminder :)

My CM charges for my holidays but not for hers (as I have to pay for alternative childcare). I'm happy with this arrangement, we often try to take holidays at the same time.

All contract vary.
As a teacher, I used to pay 1/2 price for all school holidays, and top up to full price for the odd days when they would go in the holiday - but that was how the contract was agreed in the first place.

Sometimes you have to think about the total you pay for the year - some who don't want paying in the holidays will charge a higher hourly rate.

As a general rule though, if the CM is available, then they should be paid.

If I've read your post right though, it seems unreasonable to be saying you should pay for 10 hours if she normally only looks after them for 3 hours

Yes I think it's reasonable to pay.

I offer a term time only or all year round contract and parents can choose. But I won't mix and match. I won't offer to have your child full time in the hols (and therefore not take on another child) for you to then pick and choose what you will and won't use.

I charge for children's absence. End of.

I assume her other mindees are after school and school holidays?

That's our set up and if we go on holiday, we still pay, but the place is available if we never go on holiday, IYSWIM.

We pay a retainer of 60% of our fees during the school holidays, because I'm a teacher and don't need dd to go when I'm not at work. We don't pay for the cm's holidays at all.

Rereading, I think your set up is the same as mine. Yes, that sounds fine. Your CM may take holidays in the holiday so perhaps you could coordinate? Mine doesn't charge when she is away.

I take a holiday when they do and pay a retainer for any extras.

Thanks everyone. I don't have a problem with paying our CM when we're on holiday. It's the amount I'm querying. Term-time we have 3 hours/day and school holidays we'd have 10 hours/day. But we will cover about 8 weeks of the school hols ourselves. So is it reasonable for CM to charge us the 10 hour rate for those weeks we aren't using her, or the 3 hour rate?

I think that sounds reasonable. It's like two separate contracts - one for the holidays, and one for term time. She won't find someone who only wants the eight holiday weeks that you don't want, so is likely to lose out otherwise.

You need to look at the contract you signed, because presumably it was all laid out there.
If when you look, you think it is unclear, then you should raise it with her. If for example, you had expected to pay for 3 hours in the hols if not attending, and it is not clear that you would pay 10 hours if not attending, say this. You can then work it out.
If however, you signed up to 10 hours for whole school hols, rather than on an ad hoc basis, you have signed and agreed. It was your error.
Your contract is probably due for review after a year. If you don't like the terms you have, negotiate different ones at that point. However, you probably need to honour what you have signed up to already,mid it is clear.

In future, perhaps you could ask for her to do full days for 2 weeks of the holiday,which will be specified 6 weeks in advance and agree to pay the 3 hours for the other weeks.

If you yourself have not been totally clear about how often you needed her all day, then it is not really reasonable to expect to tell her it is only for a couple of weeks, at short notice. Clarity well in advance, written down,mis always key to these things.

For those of you that pay a retainer, how much is that?

Chocolate the contract isn't clear, though it looks like the 3 hours are the standard hours and the 10 hours in holidays is 'extra'.

I probably wasn't clear with her either re how many weeks holiday we would be taking so yes, lesson learned, clarity well in advance and everything in writing is the way forward!

When I used to have childminders, I paid if they were available to work. And they specified that they would take 4 weeks off a year, which were always in the school holidays, as she had school age children. She always told me the dates at least 3 months in advance.
If I ever needed extra hours, outside of my contract, I could ask for them, but there was not guarantee.

I think you can either have a before and after school hours contract, with the possibility of random extra hours in the hols, subject to the CM being able to do it, at their discretion.
OR
A before and after school hours contract in term time, with full days in the hols. (To cover all holidays)
OR
One which is before and after school hours in term time, but lays out X number of extra weeks a year in advance for full days.

Most childminders will not be keen on options 1 and 3. Some don't want children in the school hols as they prefer to just have their own children. And more to the point, if they are working hols, they want to maximise their income. This may be from children they mind just school hours in term time,mor extra children they only look after in the hols. They are working on the basis of calculating their years salary, and may have factored in havi g more full time minders in the holidays. It is not possible for someone with short notice to just decide they no longer need all those weeks.

How long does your dd go for in the hols? Just her usual 3 hours or do you require the cm to cover 10 hours? Seems you want your cake and eat it.

As a cm for those I have after school but hols all day we average out a daily rate. Took bit of effort but means that if hol in the school hols I'd get slightly less than a full days work but if they hol on a school day then I get significantly more. I just saw as a fair way of doing

Ok, so the CM is available to work 10 hour days in the holidays but you have decided not to use her services for the whole holidays, only some.

If you weren't using her at all in the holidays and she could offer the whole holiday to someone else, then you might have a point. When were you planning to tell her which 8 weeks you need her and which 8 weeks you don't?

Why not use her more, save more holiday and all go away together?

Sounds like the holiday period isn't specified as a certain number of weeks. Does sound like she has been expecting to have them all day throughout the holiday period.
When is your contract up for review? If it does not have one on it, request to have a review after 6 months or a year.
You could then ask if she is willing for you to define the holiday full day period 6 months in advance and continue with the 3 hours payment throughout the rest of the hol. She may be willing, or not, if she knows she could get full time children for the whole hol.

One friend of mine wanted something like you would like. In order to get it, she paid a higher hourly rate through the year. In the end, she felt it was worth it, because she was struggling to find someone who would do all day in the hols anyway, but only 3 hours in term time. I agree with the earlier poster,Moho said, think in terms of your yearly spend on child minding, more than the exact hourly rate, and consider what the average cost per month is.

That's a good solution takesalong thanks. And thanks chocolate for all the info. I guess thinking about it in terms of annual spend is very sensible.

I'm new to using a CM so appreciate everyone sharing their experiences. I just wasn't sure what was normal.