Huge Problems with Childminder - Please Help!

[JustABeginner]

Any help on this subject, whatever your opinion, would be MUCH appreciated as I am so confused and unsure what to do! Please bear with me, and so sorry if I ramble...

Here goes...
Booked a part time place, 2 days a week for my (then unborn) baby last year, when I was 6 months pregnant.
Baby started with childminder when she was 5 months old, attending two days per week.
All was going really well when totally out of the blue, the childminder gave notice, due to 'accidentally going over her numbers' and having to 'evict' (my words, not hers) the last child in. I was very upset, after having booked her so far in advance, but had no choice but to accept her decision.
She gave notice on a Monday morning - the official "settling in" ended on the Friday just gone (i.e. two days before notice was given). However, my baby only attended Tues/Thursdays, so according to the NCMA contract, her first official contractual day would have been the Tuesday (i.e. the day after childminder gave me notice). Therefore, my baby seemingly never attended under the full contract, and the contract (and notice period) should therefore not apply (in my opinion). The NCMA have confirmed this to me.
The childminder was paid one month in advance. I decided to find a new childminder immediately and not send my baby to her for the four weeks notice period she gave me. She agreed that she would then refund the money I had paid in advance, to allow my baby to settle with a new childminder ASAP and not get any more used to her than she already was. She agreed to return the month's money by cheque.
She called me later that evening to announce she had changed her mind and would not refund the month's payment in advance.
I am SO upset! I am having to pay two child minders in August, which means I am going to work for MINUS ?200.
The NCMA have confirmed twice that because she gave notice before my baby's first full 'contractual' day she is not entitled to keep the money. The childminder says that her NCMA Legal Adviser has told her otherwise, though, and will therefore not refund the money. How can they tell her one thing, and me another?!
I am so confused, upset and unsure what to do!
Do any childminders have any advice - is she in the right? My local authority have advised me to go to the small claims court but I just don't think I am brave enough.

Any thoughts much appreciated,
Thank you

it would be better if you didn't have to go through the small claims court. I believe you have to pay to go through it and it's a whole load of hassle, even if you win she may not pay anyway.

I would really try and sort it out between the 2 of you if possible. I would send her a letter saying that you want the money back and stating the part in the NCMA contract that says she is not entitled to keep the money.
Also remind her that she did say you could have it back and so you are down a lot of money.
You can also threaten her with small claims to see if that makes a difference.

If it still doesn't work then I would report her to whoever you need to report childminders to. One for "inadvertantly" going over the number (how???) and secondly for keeping the money

Small claims court is really easy. You can file all the papers yourself and it is relatively cheap £80 to file a claim.

However, you might just prefer a free consultation with a solicitor and pay for them to write a letter setting out your rights - that may persuade her to pay up.

The fact is that even if there had been a contract in place, she arguably broke the contract by being over her numbers and it would have been impossible for you as a parent to send your child there knowing that she would not be able to give it the full care and attention as set out by the regulations on numbers. So even if there were a contract she broke it, not you!

Cheers Hairymclary

Long story, which I really don't understand, but apparently some children that were supposed to be leaving in September now aren't leaving, and her DH is returning to work so she will now be bringing her own son back into her care. Very confusing - it seems obvious to me that she never actually had a place for my DD, and was using her as a 'filler' in the summer to make a few more £££.

I've written her a letter stating everything very clearly and all I got back was a two liner, stating that her NCMA legal adviser had told her she didn't have to repay the money and the matter is now 'closed'. I can't believe someone that I thought was so nice could be so mean!

I just don't understand how the whole settling in/notice period thing works, and how the NCMA can apparently tell me one thing and her something totally different! I'm thinking that she has never actually called them, and is just hoping I go away. I just can't afford to!

Really really wish I didn't have to work and then none of this would matter

She is trying it on, you should definitely take her to court

Yes, soapbox is right, she broke the contract in the first place by going over numbers. If, as oyu say, you booked the place ina dvance she shouldn't have filled it. Last year one of my parents went on maternity leave and made it very vlear that she would be going back to work and would require me to have both children, so i kept the place.
Did you pay a deposit or retainer for her to keep the place for your baby?
I would also have a chat with OFSTED, who, if i'm correct, register and regulate all childminders in England and Wales. ( I'm assuming England because you mentioned NCMA).
If it was me, i would also call back the NCMA and ask to speak to a manager and say what you were told when you phoned and what your CM is alleging she was told (i.e that she can keep the money).

oh my god the cheeky cow
deff trying it on i would inform OFSTED bout her over numbers
would contact ncma and get them to help you get your money back
i have a temp contract with my parents for 3 mths where if the parents or i change our minds/not working they would get a full refund
she is deff not being proffesional cant believe she phoned you to tell you she had changed her mind
so cross gives c/m a bad name feel sorry for you hope you find a better c/m

you can file online in the small claims court - it's very simple, cheap (around £28 IIRC, which is then borne by the other party if you win) and if she doesn't pay up they send a bailiff round (been there, done it, got the money).
It's very easy and with it just being online forms it's all at arm's length IYKWIM. You don't have to turn up at a court or anything like that.

I think the letter frm a solicitor is a really good idea actually, especially if they will do it for free

Geekgirl - you do have to go to court if they decide to defend the case.

We're off to Bromley small claims court soon to get some money back for a dodgy washing machine

why don't you contact ncma or local early years offices to arrange an arbitration meeting. From what i can gather you are in the right and she probably hasn't contacted the NCMA at all. I have noticed with my (soon to be ex-childminder) that she would agree something with me then speak to her DH and suddenly change her mind!
Did you have to pay a retainer from when you originally booked the place? I would also file a complaint with Ofsted as this goes on their Ofsted reports. I used to be a complete advocate of cm over nurseries but recent experience makes me think there is a real need for more legislation/guidelines on how c-minders operate, my best friend had one who expected my friend to pay her whilst she (the CM) was unavailable due to maternity leave!

Aww thanks so much for your help, really appreciate it.

Feel like I'm up against a brick wall -

The NCMA and local authority have both been really helpful and sympathetic (and shocked by her behaviour!) but neither can do anything to help me get my money back. They both say I will need to consult a solicitor and get a letter sent. If she ignores a solicitors letter I will have to go to small claims court. I just resent having to go to work for minus £200 this month!

Regarding the numbers thing, she was saying that she was planning on taking on an 'assistant' for the 4 weeks notice period, so that'll be her excuse I guess.

Thing is, regardless of the legalities, I don't understand how she can be so mean. She gave notice after only 4 weeks, just as my DD was settling in. She could at least make a part apology by giving the month's in advance money back, rather than going through this. Although she wanted to work her notice, why on earth would I want my DD to spend another 4 weeks getting used to her. And why would I want her to be cared for by an unknown 'assistant' for 4 weeks? I've now found a lovely childminder and I want my baby to get settled with her straight away - I think this is reasonable!

It all just stinks to me - I just feel like I've been scammed and my baby is being passed from place to place!

Sorry for rambling, all just getting to me!

btw Ofsted do not offer advice regarding fees & payments, I recently contacted them over a similar issue & they are just "quality control"

I wouldn't have thought she could get an assistant that quickly - don't they have to have police checks etc as well??

I don't suppose the Childminder put the following bit in writing? Guess it was verbal.

'She agreed that she would then refund the money I had paid in advance, to allow my baby to settle with a new childminder ASAP and not get any more used to her than she already was. She agreed to return the month's money by cheque.'

I do not consider it to be right of the childminder to agree this verbally, and then not honour it.
I am surprised that NCMA are not considering their position regarding having this childminder as a member of their organisation, it's not very professional conduct. However, I guess as long as the Childminder is paying her membership fee, they won't really care that much. At least the NCMA have been quite supportive towards you, even if their legal team don't sing from the same hym sheet as the office staff.

Ofsted will not deal with things to do with money or contracts. They will deal with things like going over numbers (Standard 2). From what you say, it looks like the childminder is complying with Standard 12 - Working in Partnership with parents and carers - as the childminder does have a written agreement with you. As the childminder has used an NCMA contract, the NCMA are the people to call for advice, alas they would be advising both you and their member, thus you are getting two different responces depending who is calling them at the time!

Small claims court does seem the way to go.
Not a happy start to your childminding experience, hope your new childminder is much nicer.

how on earth can she not know she is going over numbers.

She's probably spent the money, maybe she could pay you back in installments?

I would write to NCMA & get their views in writing. I would write her a letter, enclosing a copy of NCMA's reply to you, reminding her that she agreed to pay the money back and suggesting she pay by a certain date. Put in your letter that if she has not paid by [date] that you will take this to the small claims court as you cannot afford to pay for a service you have not received.

Then, if you do take it to court, you have written evidence of your attempts to resolve the situation.

I would imagine that if she contacted the NCMA, any information given to her will be based on her version of events and what she thinks should/shouldn't happen (in the same way that your advice will have been based on what you believe and said to them).

I think that she seems to be pulling a fast one, and is probably hoping that you will just leave matters be. I think that contacting the NCMA legal people might help (I assume that she is an NCMA member?) - if you both put your thoughts in writing, then perhaps they can decide what's what.

I hope that this doesn't cloud your judgement of childminders - we're not all money-grabbing, and I am appalled at how you have been treated.

agree with going through small claims court following a letter .. this does not need to be a solicitor's letter but ensure you write 'without prejudice' at the top so it does not prejudice any future claim

I would also suggest considering making a formal complaint about her being dishonest and going over her numbers .. I think she's just being a cow tbh

how can she just get an assitant to cover the 4 weeks
she is talking crap
an assitane would have to go throught ofsted c/m certifcate also assitane needs police clearence
talk to ofsted get them to investgate
she has totally broken her promise and word ii would hang and string her