CMs and paid holidays

[CandyKate]

My DDs have been at our CM 4 days a week for a few years now. CM gets 5 weeks fully paid holiday a year. My eldest DD starts school in September so will just need after school (2 hrs) and holiday care. She charged £5/h for each child.

I was thinking that it seems kind of unfair that out of the 12 weeks of school holiday a year I will actually only get 7 weeks of holiday cover and be paying her 5 weeks holiday at full rate. When both DDs are at school, I will effectively be paying nearly £10p/h per child for this holiday cover - that's nearly £20p/h for both children and the equivalent of £200 a day during the holidays. This seems crazy to me, or am I missing something?!

So why did you agree to such a contract?

Well we haven't agreed the new contract yet for when DD is at school but isn't this how it usually works? This is the current arrangement, it only starts to seem unfair when DD starts school.
What are the other options?

Well there unlimited options, every cm works differently. Might I suggest you talk to her about it?

I assume that during the school summer holidays you will redo your contract with her as your hours will change. I would say you are not prepared to pay full time fees during the holidays. If you are happy to pay the lower rate of 2 hours a day for her holiday times say this, but she may say that she isn't prepared to accept this. Up to you if you are willing to lose the childminder over holiday pay though. As a cm I don't charge for my holidays and as a parent I wouldn't have accepted it in a contract.

I don't really see what the other options are - that is why I am asking for advice. I know i can talk to her but i would like to think any options through first.

I don't think she would accept me only paying the after school rate for her paid holidays, what else could I suggest? What do other cms/parents do?

I state that I will take 4 weeks unpaid holiday and that if the parents want any holiday outside of the weeks that I take, then these are paid.

I thought this was pretty standard. Paying for full time holiday care when the CM is unavailable seems bad, but if that's the contract you've signed then I suppose you're committed to it unless you can convince your CM otherwise.

As it turns out, I will probably not take the 4 weeks off as I need the money, so if the family want 2 weeks off or just to use me for 2-3 days a week in the holidays I am flexible. However, if I had more than one family to accommodate this might not be so easy.

Have a chat to her and see what you can work out. If she's not used to doing school pick up it may be that she hasn't consider the implications of her holiday. If she decides to take her weeks in term time it will cost you a quarter of the amount, if she takes holiday in school holidays it costs 4 times, that does seem unfair.

Everyone is different and it is up to you to negotiate with her. If these are her standard terms, she doesn't need to change them. Will she definitely take all holiday in school holidays?

I don't charge holidays, but I know many CMs do (but maybe charge a lower hourly rate), otherwise they never take time off.

I charge holidays but only 4 wks & of that I choose 2 & parents choose 2. If I take more it's unpaid & if they take more it's paid.
I have a couple that i mind that come before/after school but all day in hols. It was a bit of a faff to work out but we worked out an av day pay. So then if I'm off in hol I'm on slightly less than having them but if in school time then I'm on more.
Might b worth having a chat & seeing what arrangement she may come to

Thanks, that is helpful. Anyone else do this?

I am amazed how many mn'ers sign a contract saying that they will pay the cm holiday and at full whack for 4/5+ weeks

Cm are se - as am I (temp/emergancy/night nanny) yet I don't get holidays

I know its up to the cm/parent what try agree to but seems weird

Obv anytime the cm has off is up to her and any weeks parents go away they should pay

I pay for my CM's holidays. She's lovely though so I'm loathe to renegotiate for dc2.

I think you really need to talk to her as a matter of urgency: how can you think through options if you don't know what she's prepared to offer?

Do you even know if she will cover your changed hours in September? If she can't or won't, you'll need plenty of time to find an alternative arrangement.

Our CM doesn't charge for holidays, in fact none of the CM's in our small town charge for holidays. The only holidays I pay are the 4 public holidays at xmas/newyear. Our CM takes 6 weeks holiday a year and its unpaid.

I wouldn't be happy paying 5 weeks holiday at all - I'd renegotiate or find another CM that doesn't charge for hols.

I have only just recently asked parents to start paying me between Xmas and new year, other than that I don't get holiday pay.

I pay my CM, 2 weeks a year at half pay and the rest is unpaid. I have 1 dd at school, dd 2 will start in September. I don't think I would be prepared to pay anymore holiday than that I do. Paying someone to not provide a service for 5 weeks is very steep. I would definitely not pay that for an after schoolie

I would try and negotiate something like I have or max of 2 weeks full paid and if not prepared to negotiate, I would be looking around for alternative CMs with more reasonable conditions or using school and holiday clubs

I would either ask for it at the term time rate or if she won't agree to that, then work out the average weekly rate ie 39 weeks @ term time hours + 13 weeks @ holiday hours divided by 52.

Incidentally, I charge for my holiday (4 weeks) but only to year round parents & I would charge my holidays based on average daily rate.

I think as a self employed person it's not fair to charge if you are Unavailable ! I don't charge if I'm closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I employed a plumber and then mid job he announced he was off on hols then I would not pay him!

We pay for all holidays, we effectively pay her 52 weeks pay a year. But we do very weird hours throughout the month so just pay a flat rate every month, regardless of holidays. Some months we use her more than we pay, some months we use her less than we pay. It evens out and because she sometimes provides last minute or emergency care we're happy with it.

I've seen it commented on here that some CM charge slightly more per hour and not in the holidays, some charge slightly less but do charge for holidays. It depends whether you think it evens out over the year.

But Bonkers that plumber isn't working with just 3 or 4 customers, doesn't work for the same family every week all year & charges considerably more per hour than a childminder. I do understand why people get cross as few (if any?) other self-employed workers charge for holidays BUT I can't think of any other SE role that has the same frequency & longevity of relationship that a cm & mindee have.

I also feel CM's (like anyone) need to have a break occasionally but if you can't afford to have a week without pay (& local market sets the rate so you can't simply decide to 'build it in' or you'd lose business to competition) you'd be working constantly which isn't good for mindees or cm.

phoebe - the way I see it, if you want to get holiday pay and sick pay, you work for a company. One of the disadvantages of being self-employed is that you don't get those benefits, but you get all the other advantages of setting your own hours, working for yourself etc.

It seems a bit 'having your cake and eating it' to be self-employed, yet expecting your clients to pay for your holidays. I wouldn't pay for my CM's holiday pay, and she would never ask and I don't think her hourly rate (at 3.50 an hour) is extra high in order to cover for her lack of paid holidays. In fact, I consider it pretty good value.

ditto badidea

im se and i dont get paid for nay holidays i take, i go away in 6 weeks time and as dp is also se having 2 weeks off really costs us a months salary plus the actual cost of our holiday but we bite the bullet and do it, no point always working and never having a break

saying that, i understand why cm charge parents if they go on holiday as cm is still there to work

I believe if I want holiday or I cannot work then as a self employed childminder I won't get paid. That's it. I give minimum 4 weeks notice. In reality I give all holidays for the year in JAN and I don't limit how much time I can take. This year I am having 6 weeks unpaid. If parents holiday when I'm available to work they do pay full fee. This is fair as if I can't work they may have to pay someone else and paying double fees would break most families!!!!!!!
It's not about being valued or respected (my parents do value me) it's about being fair. If I close I lose money. Simple! My hourly fee is £3 so I haven't increased fee etc to cover this policy I just budget!

bonkerz - completely agree about parents paying if they choose to go on holiday.

We usually try and match our CM's summer fortnight (she gives us a list of all her holidays in January so we know what time she's taking off) so that we don't need to worry about getting alternative childcare if we go off at a different time, but this year (with me still being on mattie leave) we're going two weeks before her fortnight, so we'll pay her while we're away, but we don't need to pay her when she's away - to me that is entirely fair.

It's the same as if our son is sick, we still pay for the days he misses through illness (not our CM's fault our son is ill), but if our CM is ill, we don't need to pay for the day she can't take him.

Maybe it depends on the part of the country you live in as to whether CM's charge for hols or not (e.g. if the demand outstrips the supply, perhaps CM's charge more because they can).

This is why I don't charge when I'm not available, but I don't think CM can be compared to most other self employed people. I have advised a couple of CMs to negotiate a week paid holiday, because they never took a break.

Thanks, this is all really helpful. And good to know that I'm not being unreasonable not to want to pay her for so much holiday! She charges £5 an hour by the way, which is average for this area but works out alot per day for 2 DCs!!