Nanny not doing as required.....help.....

[CarlyP]

ok, we hired our nanny in october, she worked at the prescool and had jsut finished her cache training, crb checked etc.

she was ok, and good at times, but about once a month i was kicking her up the bum a bit.

we got a contract etc (standard nanny one) and added an appendix to it. in this appendix it states:

i) Getting them dressed in suitable clothing for the weather
ii) Changing nappies when required
iii) Taking them to the park, play group and arranging play dates, including visits to the local library
iv) Tidying the playroom, including wiping down the toys and shelves when needed
v) Getting them involved in physical activities i.e. Watching boogie beebies dvd once a day on the same episode for a week and encouraging them to do the moves by doing them your self. Playing chase in the garden and encouraging throwing and catching of balls/frisbee
vi) Encouraging reading and writing and speech skills i.e. reading, talking to them about what you are doing and why, using ?flashcards? which animals, numbers, colours on etc, showing them objects and getting them to repeat the words to you
vii) ?Themes? for each week and activities planned around that. I.e. ?Leaves? you could go and collect leaves of different colours, sizes, shapes etc over the week and put them in a big pot and then do some ?sticking? with them at the end of the week. ?Blue? Find lots of blue objects and talk about what around us is blue etc. Draw a picture to summarise at the end of the week. ?Cars? collect and draw items from toy cars etc, put them in a big ?pot? to collect and then at the end of the week make a collage
viii) Planning trips for the week, maybe once a week/fortnight to somewhere interesting for them. Plan you route, take the bus etc. (Farm, pets corner, adventure area, soft play area)
ix) Fill in the ?children?s? diary with events from the day, and notes of sleep times and any other relevant information

out of all that she has never:

arranged a play date or taken them to the library
wipeed down the toys and shelves in playroom
encouraged throwing/catching
only done a 'theme' once
Taken them into town to play area twice and pets corner once
filled out diary for about a week.

im fed up of chats with her.........she annoys me and tbh i want out. i keep giving her chances, but she is not taking them. the boys like her and she is nice to them, but i feel they watch to much tv, and she sits and lets them play (no interaction from her).

i know its the verbal, written and then sacking route. but ive talked to her so many times, and wouldnt know what to include in the written warning and she really wouldnt know why id given her it.....seriously, she is not v v bright.

HELP ME.........what do i do???

agree with last two posters, which is why my early post said

Before you ask this nanny to do all of the above, have you tried to do it yourself particularly organising weekly themes.

There is one hell of a lot of stuff there ...

If you can do this routine for two weeks, then why not write it down and schedule everthing, you can teach her the routine.

I'm not a nanny and I don't employ one. My first thought of reading your list was that you were being unrealistic. My boys are 2.6yo and I'm lucky if I can hold their concentration for more than a few minutes. For example, I give them crayons and blank piece of paper and after 5 minutes, they have had enough. When at home, all mine want to do is play and I let them get on with it.

IMO, I think your expectations are unrealistic, especially if you don't even do those things yourself.

I agree with the last couple of posters too. Your children are too young for that kind of structured learning - that is what school is for! At 2-3 years old I would encourage lots of play, whether it be messy play, outdoor play, physical activities, imaginative play, even just leaving them with toys on the floor for a half hour. Play is hugely important in early years development. Flashcards/themes etc are a bit too involved for such young children, instead have a daily reading time where they boys sit with nanny and look and picture books and she can point things out/ask questions in that informal context. I think a lot of parents expect far too much from their young children, expecting them to be little geniuses before they start whatever pre-prep they've been signed up for since birth. I believe that kind of pressure serves only to exhaust and frustrate children as they know they can't do it (they are not ready developmentally for such structure), but cannot communicate this to their parents/carers in any way other than acting up. Instead of pressurising them (and nanny) with such an IMHO unreasonable list, just relax, let them play, get messy, explore their world, be social, ask questions, be little children for that little bit longer. When they start school, they will be that little bit more confident in themselves, even if they can't quite write their name or catch a ball. Childhood is so precious, don't wish it away. Have nanny write a daily log of things they have done, and have activities booked for each week too, so she can meet other nannies (ie swimming/music/dance). When I look after 2-3 year olds any learning we have done has been impromptu, like going to Kew Gardens in autumn and rolling in the leaves, then asking why leaves fall off the trees? You can incorporate a lot of learning in every day life, without having a weekly theme.

And I also strongly agree that you canot ask nanny to do something you would not be happy to do yourself. A nanny is not a school teacher. She is someone there to provide loving care of your children, including some educating ie numbers, the alphabet, seasons, cooking, etc. But the very nature of her job is a home based one not a classroom. Her care should nurture the child, not pummel it with constant educational experiences that are far beyond the comprehension of the child. If your child was, say 6 or 7 I would say differently. But they are 20 months and 2 and a half, thats way too young to pile on the pressure. Sorry to offend, if I have, but you are being unreasonable.

Ok, spoke to my nanny and gave her some ideas....

wrote down and 'idea' of what to do each day with them and plajnned outings every thursday to somewhere special which she seemed to like the idea of.....

im not some sort fo hard task master, but yes, i do stick to a certain routine when at home with them. i have not asked her to do anything i wouldnt do myself.

e.g of what ive asked her to do is below......is this unreasonable then?.....

Tuesday Date:
7.30-9am Finish Breakfast, gets boys dressed, FREE PLAY, Get Scrapbook things ready
9-11.30am Cut & paste pictures etc, 10am snack & oscar bed. 11am drink & play outside
11.30am-12pm Get lunch ready & tidy toys
12pm-2pm Lunch for you and boys, put oscar to bed at 1pm, you have a break and alf watches some tv
2pm-4.30pm Get Oscar up, have juice, go to the park & take 3pm snack. Do chalk & make words on magnet board
4.30pm-5pm Tidy toys, cook dinner and FREE PLAY
5pm- 6pm Dinner, wash up & tidy up

Thursday Date:
7.30-9am Finish Breakfast, gets boys dressed, FREE PLAY, Get boys bag ready
9-11.30am Go on bus to library in Old Harlow, or Soft play in town etc
11.30am-12pm Get ready to come home & catch bus
12pm-2pm Lunch for you and boys, put oscar to bed at 1pm, you have a break and alf watches some tv
2pm-4.30pm Get Oscar up, have juice, do puzzles, play with lego/tools. 3pm snack. Play outside
4.30pm-5pm Tidy toys, cook dinner and FREE PLAY
5pm- 6pm Dinner, wash up & tidy up

i have pointed out to her that boviously if they done want to play with cars etc and want to go outside then go with it.

but otherwise they just 'float' along all day and watch far far too much tv.

opinions welcome.

The timings are a bit too rigid, in my opinion. I think I would specify meal times, nap times, and then say you expect them to keep occupied with limited tv viewing (say one hour of day for telly). And you might specify that telly should be in the form of DVDs not nickjr. If you specify DVDs then she will have to tend to it when it ends, but if they are watching telly it is very easy to leaave them there for hours forgettting to take note of how long they have been there.

Then, install the use of the nanny diary to find out actual times. You can then use the nanny diary as a monthly review tool. Go through it and say I notice DS is going down for a nap at varying times and I'd really like it kept to strictly 1:00. Or, "could you be more specific on what they ate and how much?"

I just think if my boss handed me a schedule like that I'd be insulted. I'd expect to be given a task with general guidelines, and not be told when to inhale and when to exhale. In fact I recently had this problem at work and it made me very unhappy. I think you need to let her make some of the choices. For example, give her the freedom to stand up and say, "Next Tuesday, we are going to the zoo." And not, "Would it be okay if we went to the zoo next Tuesday". It may be that you are already happy for her to do this, but does she know that?

I am very outgoing and if she said 'next tuesday we are going to the zoo', id jump for joy. id love her to take some initative, truly. but she never does. thats the problem.

i feel like ive got to give her some direction.

i have told her that id like her to plan things etc, but only after several times fo me asking does anything get done.

she is v sweet, but lacks any confidence and has never been outside the village we live beoynd 20miles radius.

i am trying to give her some confidence and say well done and thanks and great etc and told her how much the boys like her etc. now i am at the end of my tether.

i really want this to work, but its been 10months of 'ok' 'ok...ish' childcare.

i dont know how else i can approach this.

i have done 'stand back and see' and now im doing 'follow these guides' etc, there is no other tacked to take.

i say think about where/what you are going to do next week etc for an outing and she only ever comes up with the park. great for a daily activity, but i mean something to get them ALL out of the house for a bit.

i cant seen to bloody win.

Carly, I think I've been where you are. The more control you feel you loose, the more you try to take, and the less she listens...

Anyway, how about this?

Find her some nanny friends. Where do you live? Can we help point you to one?

Sign her/them up for activities. Tumble tots, nusic class, soft play centre, Annual membership to Kew Gardens (if you are in West London), and so on.

Install the nanny diary. Buy a book, give her a sample page or two, and tell her to get on with it. (I will gladly help you with this as we use a nanny diary)

Install a monthly review, first one being in two weeks from now. Get her the nanny diary this Monday. You will have plenty to talk about.

If she still cant' perform, give her written warning. And then notice. But, hopefully it won't come to that.

And in her review ask her what she thinks of her work load/duties. Maybe she thinks you are asking too much. And maybe she'll simply say nannying isn't what she thought it would be.

It sounds as if she is not the right nanny for you, tbh.

You come across as very focussed, outgoing and active person, who has high expectations of her children's carers. Your programme sounds a bit over the top to me, in all honesty, as I'm quite happy for my children to have plenty of bimbling around time.

But if that's what you want for your kids and, crucially, you'd be doing the same if you were looking after them, then fair enough. But I suspect you'd need a much more outgoing, confident, mature and experienced person to keep up with a programme like that. And of course it is likely that someone with initiative and experience will have plenty of ideas of her own and might balk at having her schedule of activities laid down for her like that.

But your present nanny does seem a bit young and drippy, so it sounds as if you're unlikely really to get what you're after from her, however nice she is.

thanks to your both.

i want this to work out, really i do.

i gave her a file with these daily 'suggestions/timings' in and said they were a guide, along with a notes page etc for her to fill in daily saying what they done etc.

i also gave her an expense form for outings and said that ill give her a weekly 'float' of more money, and to write down what she spends in there etc so we all know (£10 can go in a cpl of days and shes bought 'sweets' apparently.....)

i asked if she thought nannying was for her, and she said yes. i asked if anything was 'overwhelming her' she said no.

i bought boys scrap books and we done these all together yesterday and i went through a routine with her etc.

on top of all this my ds1 is getting over pneumonia (beleive me, no-one can stick to any routine the past few days) and ive just had major surgery.

all i want is for her not to be so 'drippy' (sums it up prefectly frogs) and to take the bull by the horns.......... if ds1 starts signing one more tv 'theme tune' ill go mad.....!!!!!

we live ina little village, no other nannies, a cpl of CM's but not on her 'wavelength' and alot older.

i am going to ask her tonight how things have been today etc and ask what sort of thing she has planned for tomorrows outing........and then say we will review in 2wks.

thanks everyone.

cx

p.s. activiites hard as ds1 is 2.5 and ds2 is 1.5 and in diff age groups that dont run at the same time.

we have a soft play, pets corner, town park, messy play thing all within bus or cab ride.

Do you go to these things by bus / taxi or do you drive ? On the one hand you say she has never taken them more than 20 miles from your village and on the other talk about buses and taxis. No way I would have taken mine more than 20 miles by bus for an outing at that age. Actually we only get a bus coming here twice a week (one going to Harlow) but I imagine yours must be slightly more frequent than that but still can be hard to get to small children ready and at bus stop at right time. Maybe you need an older driving nanny.

I think what you want to happen re the schedule is fine but i think your nanny is lacking confidence and a bit of get up and go and thats because she's a teenager tbh. I don't think she's ever going to get what you want from her as she is young and lacking in experience.

You might just have to put up with it or get someone who is older and has more experience as you want the nanny to be very proactive.

I don't think this is too much for an 18 year old. In fact I would expect her to have much more energy than I would. And, I think riding the bus is perfectly realistic. My nanny takes the bus all the time with my kids who are now 15 months and 3 1/2 years. She has done this since the younger one was 3 months old.

I'm all for routine, to a point. As a nanny, my week with the children tends to go along the same pattern, though is adaptable to fit with whatever new thing comes along. Children like knowing whats coming next, I'm sure the 23 month old I care for knows which day is usually Swimming!

Can I comment on your 'schedule' though...

Tuesday Date:
7.30-9am Finish Breakfast, gets boys dressed, FREE PLAY, Get Scrapbook things ready
9-11.30am Cut & paste pictures etc, 10am snack & oscar bed. 11am drink & play outside
11.30am-12pm Get lunch ready & tidy toys

To me this looks wrong... sorry. Oscar is 1.5yrs, so should he really be having much of a nap in the morning? It restricts going out. The morning nap will be phased out soon, so would it not be better to start getting him more active between breakfast and lunch. If he gets tired, he could always nap while sitting on a bus/in taxi, in buggy etc.
I notice that on Thursday he doesn't have the morning nap scheduled... so I'm wondering why it's scheduled on a Tuesday.

With young childen I always prefer going out in the morning, rather than afternoon. Morning I feel is for active activities, afternoon is for more relaxed home play (and nap for youngest).
Also I find a lot of groups - toddlers, music, etc are in the morning, not afternoon... at least in my area (surrey/berkshire border).

12pm-2pm Lunch for you and boys, put oscar to bed at 1pm, you have a break and alf watches some tv

Sounds fine. I tend to follow a similar thing, though we don't have a TV in the house. Youngest to bed, while oldest relaxes with whatever they like doing on their own. I then tidy lunch things, prep afternoon activity, drink a coffee etc. Then we do baking, painting, drawing, train track... whatever afternoon the activites are and youngest joins in once he's up from his nap.

Perhaps on a Tuesday morning, nanny could take the children to a toddler group. If you are near Old Harlow, Essex (think you are), then see this list as one is listed in Old Harlow, on a Tuesday morning Toddler Group List - Harlow Council, Essex

I agree with Uwila, that your nanny should have more energy than an older nanny. But alas won't have the life experience, so may take a while to get used to doing things that up until now, her mother may have done for her! (such as planning bus trips, things to do, weekly budgeting, etc.)

Also agree with Uwila's earlier post about timings needing to be a bit looser - while having a schedule can be a good guide, for a beginner... children don't always conform to a schedule, so it should be adaptable to the children's needs. Plus you mention pre-school in an earlier message, so would need to adapt to that, once term-time begins.

Think your nanny may just need to wise up a bit to what is expected and that she needs to be thinking more for herself about what things locally the boys would like. If you are in a rural location, then boys I find often like muddy puddles! So nothing better than walking on countryside footpaths, through muddy fields on an autumn day. Also soon be Blackberrys time, those can be good to pick, and then cook in a pie/crumble. How's her baking skills?

Nanny also probably needs some company, thus turing to her friend. Maybe try persuading her again to start chatting with other nannies, even if it's just by e-mail/message board, as it can help make her feel less isolated (if she does feel a bit cut off).
Hope thats some help.

Lizp........she has never taken boys further than town park...................i was refering to HER never have gone more than 20 miles from the village.......

Thanks Uwila.

Thank nannynick. OScar doesnt always hav a sleep and we are phasing it out, thats y on a thursday when she takes them on a trip he can snooze on the bus if needed. sometimes oz really needs a bigger morning sleep and smaller afternoon one. my 2.5yo still has 1/2 somedays after lunch.

i have explained that the 'planner' isnt rigid, but it shows ideas and things to do on different days. they dont always have to sit in with the tv on in the background.

yesterday weas her first day of following it (roughly) and she said she found it helpful.

our location is rural, and there are lots of muddy puddles, and they love them!!

she is off to the 'pets corner' at the town park today and they are all having lunch in the cafe there. given her bus money and lunch money and money for extras. Im hoping they have a good day and she realises what fun it is to take them out.

thanks for your messages. maybe my whole 'flascards, letters' thing is a bit much sometimes, but I want them to get something out of her being there educationally, not just playing allllllll the time and the flashcards are the baby einstein animal ones to learn diff animal names, not algebra!!!!!!

anyhow, thanks for all your support.

Im hoping things are looking good from now on, and that she will get a bit of 'get up and go'. Her upbringing wasnt the most 'supportive and encouraging' and from that point of view i really am trying my best to show her how to be a bit more confident and say that if she learns form this experience for a cpl of yrs, she could soon be onto a great career path.

thanks

cx

p.s. annynick, thanks for the link, have printed off and maybe they can go on that tuesday morning. also noted theres a 'younger mums' group at the town. she may want to take them to that and maybe make some friends who they can have playdates with etc.

thnaks

cx

Hi Carly,

It does sound like she may not be the nanny for you, but you seem to be doing all you can to support her. You are the boss, and she has to fit into your routine. The job description sounded fine to me-better to provide direction than be frustrated. However, if the relationship has broken down irretrievably, it may be best to call it a day. Just don't undervalue her good points if the kids like her.

I don't actually think the flashcard stuff is unreasonable, all kids are different and if that's what you want for your kids and they enjoy it , good for you. The Baby Einstein ones are great. Mine did all sorts of flashcards from letters ones to pictures, and enjoyed them all, probably as much as the attention from me.

Ironically we had a very experienced but unsatisfactory (uncaring) nanny who has been surpassed by her 19 yr old qualified but inexperienced successor, who is just fab.

What's wrong with playing all the time?

Gees! That's all my dad did till he went to P1 when was 6 - no nursery back in his day - w/o knowing a word of English.

He got a master's degree in petroleum engineering.

Kids learn by playing.

The art of play is like finding a needle among the flashcard stack these days.

How's it going now, Carly?

Expat, I think the issue is that they are Carly's kids, this is what she has chosen for them, and the person she pays to follow this routine isn't bothering to do her job.

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You've mentioned 'too much TV' several times. Perhaps you should set down specific TV rules (in my house it is before breakfast or after tea - what I find as the more fraught times of the day) - or even go 'cold turkey'.

Beyond that - I think unstructured play has a lot of value in terms of teaching creativity, independence, self-guided learning - all those good things. TV does complicate the issue becasue it is so absorbing and passive.

EXPAT, There is loads of ree play time in the daily planner for them, and thi sis mroe for my nannys benefit, so she can see other things can be done with them.

HAPPYMUMOF2, do you have a nanny or are you a SAHM? when i am at home we have activiites planned, but go with the flow on timings, being trying to get a nanny motivated is a different thing entirely. esp one so shy and un-confident as ours

UWILA, thanks for asking! they went out thrusday and all had a great time. off out again this thursday for another day out and all looking forward to it. my nany says she likes having a plan, as it helps her to focus and is much happier, so are the children. feeling better all round and hopngi things stay this way and keep getting better!

cx

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