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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

CMCLUB - Defiant child, what to do........?

21 replies

LoveMyGirls · 03/08/2006 08:50

i feel like now im achildminder i should be able to know how to handle this but im struggling to be honest, maybe im expecting too much?

im looking after a 3yr old boy and lately he has started being very defiant. eg. today he has pushed dd1 so hard in the chest she had a red mark and was crying (she is 7) and when i asked him to say sorry he wouldnt so i sat him on the floor and told him to think about saying sorry, i left it a couple of mins and came back he still refused to say sorry, in the end on my 4th attempt at getting him to say sorry i said if you dont say sorry for hurting dd1 then we will not go to play group so he said sorry but it was under duress and i dont really think he meant it.

what would you have done, did i handle it all wrong?

The same happened last time i looked after him and we were out at soft play and i was going to give them another 20mins to play when he pushed dd1 and hurt her so i said come on get your shoes on we're going (after trying to get him to apologise) and we did go home, he apologised on the way home.

is he just testing the boundaries? (i suspect he is as ive only been looking after him about 2 mths and prior to this he has been an angel, infact i was shocked at how well behaved he was, maybe i've been spoilt by that and now i expect him to be like it all the time which obviously isnt going to happen as no person is perfect)

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MaryP0p1 · 03/08/2006 08:52

Have you asked hime calmly after he's sat down why he did it? Have you asked how it made her feel?

Original poster

LoveMyGirls · 03/08/2006 09:07

i will do, but i didnt because i didnt want it to drag it out longer than it had been (prob about 10 mins ish) and for his age i didnt know if he wud know why he did it though i do know that dd1 was telling him not to do something which she does alot which does annoy him and i do keep telling her to leave him alone (while he was sat on the floor i had a quiet chat with her about this being the reason she shud leave him alone as he retalliates by lashing out) but i dont want him to think its ok to behave like that because she is annoying him.

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MaryP0p1 · 03/08/2006 09:11

I think from what you've said is that its okay. Perhaps next time try time out then without reproach or a demand of sorry ask him those questions. He sounds a bit of a hothead who would cut off his nose when cross so if she gets all the attention when it does it and then a few pointed questions when he's calm he might try talking rather than pushing. He is very small so it might just be a stage.

Original poster

LoveMyGirls · 03/08/2006 11:35

we have been to toddler group and he hit two children in the face with a toy we had to do the whole time out thing again but he did eventually say sorry and i had a chat with him afterwards about why he does it and why he wont say sorry when i ask him to he said he did say sorry and i said yes but only after we had to sit away from everyone and you know you will have to say sorry so you might as well do it to start with as sulking and not doing it only causes us both to get fustrated. i hope it is just a stage and hes just pushing the boundaries to see what i will do. He also got told not to ride on the scooter through the baby area and he dropped onto his bottom on purpose and then (fake) cried to get my attention (i ignored this and he stopped crying) so i think he was just trying to see what presses my buttons iykwim.

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LoveMyGirls · 03/08/2006 12:02

Also meant to say i am giving him easy things to do so i can praise him for being good so it doesnt seem like im only telling him off. i really like this little boy and we have had a good relationship so far, he's very loving and caring so i really love looking after him im just disapointed with this behaviour he has suddenly been displaying.

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MaryP0p1 · 03/08/2006 12:06

Sounds like your doing all the rights but he's just have a STAGE. We do love they learning periods don't we?

MaryP0p1 · 03/08/2006 12:06

Sounds like your doing all the rights but he's just have a STAGE. We do love they learning periods don't we?

SminkoPinko · 03/08/2006 12:13

Do you think it's a sign that he's grown to trust you that he's testing out boundaries now, LoveMyGirls? Sometimes kids are very very good in new situations because they're a bit freaked out by them and don't dare to be naughty every now and then, ime. Perhaps he feels settled with you a few months in and is now ready to check out the rules? I'm sure he'll settle down if you continue to be calm and consistent with him.

Another thought- is he usually alone with you during the day but currently with your girls because of the summer holidays? Perhaps he's feeling a little jealous and insecure about having to share you?

Hope he settles down soon!

Original poster

LoveMyGirls · 03/08/2006 12:37

i think it is that tbh, tho he usually shares me with dd2 , dd1 is quite demanding plus she does wind him up.

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SminkoPinko · 03/08/2006 12:46

Interesting that it is dd1 who he has clashed with mostly! Perhaps they are both (dd1 and the little lad) seeking your attention? Maybe you should heap extra praise on dd2 for being so good amidst these two bickering and see if they start copying her to try and gain similar praise?

batters · 03/08/2006 12:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SminkoPinko · 03/08/2006 14:53

you are right batters!

ThePrisoner · 03/08/2006 21:50

If I have a child who struggles to say sorry (because they won't or don't know what it means), I don't push for them to do it.

I don't know if that's a good idea or not, but I don't like seeing small children being told to do something which means nothing to them. I have a friend who insists the "naughty" child kisses the wronged child as a way of saying sorry - it achieves nothing, and the hurt child really doesn't want a kiss from the child who just hurt them!!

I would certainly have time-out though, as a way of keeping him out of trouble and for you to relax for two minutes!!

ssd · 04/08/2006 08:36

I would push for them to say sorry, I think at school etc. they must learn to say sorry so why not start it from an early age. If you ask them to think about how the "hurt" person is feeling the "sorry" will eventually come to mean something from them.

Plus the child who was hurt would I'm sure appreciate a sorry, it's as much about them as the one who did the deed.

Original poster

LoveMyGirls · 04/08/2006 08:37

dd2 is only 10mths so although she relies on me for everything she doesnt try to constantly get my attention, she's very good at amusing herself when needs be at the moment.

dd1 is 7 and mindee is 3, dd1 expects him to say sorry when he's hurt her, i also think other parents/ cm's im with expect me to get him to say sorry.

im hoping its a phase he grows out of, this morning he came in ans sat on my coffee table, i asked him to get down incase he tipped it over, he just totally refused to get down, now really it was the principal that he wasnt doing as he was told that made me fustrated. i asked him a few times and warned him if he didnt get down i would move him to the floor, which is what happened because he wouldnt do it himself. Thinking about it now maybe it would have been better if i'd just left it and he probably would have found it wasn't that comfortable to sit on and moved himself.

im new to all this so im learning. going from my own experience from my own children i have always expected that dd1 does as she's told or faces the consqences.

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lunavix · 04/08/2006 17:35

I do enforce children to say sorry, as I believe it's expected of them in other social situations.
I do give special notice when an apology is made without me prompting, or when it's actually heart felt.. if they apologise after injuring someone accidentally, and I don't have to intervene at all, then they do get special mention.

I'd have enforced the coffee table thing too. All behaviour management tells you to ignore the little stuff unless it's dangerous or hurting someone, or a risk to themselves - if the table had tipped surely he'd have hurt himself or broken it?

Original poster

LoveMyGirls · 04/08/2006 17:55

im a bit confused about how much i can enforce though as i know we're not allowed to have any kind of punishments, the worst i can do is sit him on the floor for a few minutes. im not sure if i should even have picked him up to move him off the table but what choice did i have? leave him there till he did tip it and fall off or it could have fell on the baby.

i think ill start a thread on dealing with difficult behaviour but im sure there have been threads about this before ill have a look on the archived ones, but i never seem to find what im looking for so if anyone can link me to one in the mean time i'd very much appreciate it. thanks

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lunavix · 04/08/2006 17:58

lmg - does your local eydcp not run courses? I did behaviour management recently, ti was really good.

And also I do punishments of a sort... and I've talked about them to both Ofsted and my Network coordinator.Sitting on the step for a minute a year... I know there's two minds about this but parents have suggested far worse.

Older ones have treats suspended (eg no biscuits tv ps2 etc)

And you are allowed to pick up children to remove them from danger - it's actually expected for you to.

Original poster

LoveMyGirls · 04/08/2006 18:07

you're right you know, i think i should do a course on behaviour management i think ill phone eyc on monday and see what they have. though time is a bit on the tight side at the moment, lots of things going on. but it would make my day to day life less stressful because im worrying about how i can deal with the behaviour as well as worrying about how to deal with it iyswim. theres such a lot to take in regarding rules and they change dont they.

i did mention it to his mum and she said, thats just the way he is, he's a kid. I do have a big influence though as he's with me for 50 hours a week so i know that i can change his behaviour in that time if im calm and consistant everytime. Things he can get away with at home he wont get away with here no matter how much he says "im telling my mummy" as soon as i tell him off for anything.

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ssd · 04/08/2006 19:05

doesn't sound like his mum is giving you much support in this LMG. and I don't like a child that age trying to manipulate you by saying I'll tell my mum.......

you sound like you're trying really hard, just don't let them take advantage of your kindness.

Original poster

LoveMyGirls · 04/08/2006 20:21

when i told his mum and she reacted like that i thought it was me that was making a big deal of "nothing" because my experience is my dd1 who is now 7 and she understands why she has to do as she's told and that if she doesnt there are consequences so i thought i was expecting too much from him for his age. Now you've all agreed im right to tell him off for the things i do then i will try harder (knowing im in the right is very reassuring) im only 24 which im aware is young for this profession so i worry im a bit naieve sometimes. good job i have MN to help me!

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