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Ridiculously complicated nanny question

13 replies

DownsAndUps · 19/01/2014 22:40

We have employed a nanny as part of a nanny share for the past 2.5 months. Having been with us for a few weeks our nanny discovered she was pregnant, and had been (only just) pregnant when she started. Last week the other family decided to end their contract with her (and their agreement with us) and put their child in a nursery instead. They have given a month's notice.
We really want to continue to employ the nanny. This is her first nanny job and she is inexperienced and young but very sweet and great with our kids. However, we can't afford to pay her full wage and we are not going to be able to find another family to share with long term as she will be going on mat leave in a few months.
She really wants to stay with us too, and has said she would work for what we are currently paying, which would mean a 40% pay cut.
There is a family she knows who are looking for short-term, 2-day a week care for one child and if we were happy to share her with them, that would bump up her pay a bit for a few months. We are trying to sort out this arrangement in the coming week.
Our dilemma is what to do when she goes on maternity leave. Obviously if the nanny share was still in place then we would hire a replacement nanny to cover, but on our own we can't afford to do that. She is adamant that she will only take 2 or 3 months off and will have her partner take care of the baby when she returns. If we were sure of that then we'd muddle through with the help of grandparents etc. for a bit, but of course she is fully entitled to change her mind and take up to a year off. If she does that, we can't enter into an arrangement with another family and hire another nanny, because we'll be holding her job open for her.
So, would it be 'safer' from a legal point of view to make her redundant now, because we have good reason (the nanny share has ended)? We really don't want to, but we can't keep her job open for a full year, and can't risk being sued for making her redundant and then hiring another nanny (albeit with a different family in a share).
What we'd like to do is to offer her a new contract (the current one mentions the share, and her total hourly wage which has now changed, so we have do change it anyway). A new contract would specify pay for only our 'share' of what we are paying her, and could be a fixed term, ending, say, 3 months into her mat leave. So if she wanted to return to us then she could. We would pay her accrued leave etc., and together we could look for another family to share her with. Or, she could decide after 3 months on mat leave that she wanted to stay at home longer with her baby and we'd be free to look for another family for a share, and another nanny. This would probably suit both her and us best, but is it legal??
We are being completely open with her about our predicament, and she understands. I very much doubt she would ever take a case against us but we don't want to take any stupid risks.

Sorry for the essay!

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OutragedFromLeeds · 19/01/2014 23:11

'So, would it be 'safer' from a legal point of view to make her redundant now,'

Only if you're not going to get another nanny. You can't make her redundant and then take on another nanny.

A fixed-term contract that forces someone to come back from maternity leave after 3 months or leave their job doesn't sound like it should be legal. I don't know if it is or not. It sounds bloody awful though! I think what you'll end up with is someone who comes back to work, leaving their tiny baby because they're being forced to. It's hardly ideal.

Are you open to her bringing her baby with her?

Otherwise try and find a full-time share and then take on a temporary nanny to cover her maternity leave. That's the most decent thing to do.

Moggy72 · 19/01/2014 23:16

Sounds complicated. Would you consider allowing her to bring her baby to work after say a month ? Then she could watch your kids and hers ?

DownsAndUps · 20/01/2014 07:21

I'd be very happy for her to come back with her baby but at the moment she is saying she probably wouldn't want to - she's prefer to have her partner mind the baby and therefore be able to look after our children and another child.
I really doubt that we will find another family to enter a full-time share with but I suppose we can try.
if we can't, though, I don't think we can be legally obliged to keep her on as we simply can't afford to replace her and hold her job open for a year. We'd be unable to pay our mortgage!

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Lucylouby · 20/01/2014 09:02

I actually think it sounds fair. She is proposing to come back after the three months anyway isn't she? All you are doing is putting it writing. I'm not sure of the legal aspect of this though.
If she can change her mind about returning that is fine and if she knows she can bring baby along with her that is great. I'm guessing better, as it would then be a nanny with own child, the lower rate of pay she is onbecomes more normal than paying her less now because the nanny share has finished and you can't afford the whole amount. I'm not sure what would happen with maternity pay though. Can you swop from smp to MA half way through maternity leave? If your contract ends you would have too surely?
I was made redundant when I was a pregnant nanny, had this option been open to me I would have taken it.

Would it cost you anything to hold her job open for the whole year of maternity leave? I thought maternity pay was claimed back from the government? So it would only be the pay of the new nanny you were paying?

DownsAndUps · 20/01/2014 09:15

Thanks Lucylouby - we are trying to be fair and we are being completely transparent with her, but as you say it's the legal aspect that's the problem. Unfortunately for her she's not entitled to SMP - only MA - as she was pregnant when she started work with us.
As for the cost of replacing her, the problem is that we'd have to enter into another nanny share with another family and a new nanny to replace her (which we couldn't do, really if we were holding a job open), or replace her with a nanny who we were paying on our own, on a 'normal' rate of pay, which we can't afford to do.

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nannynick · 20/01/2014 09:36

You can make her redundant whilst on OML as long as it is genuine, which sounds like the case here if say after your parents help out a while you decide to use a different form of care.

She may come back 2 weeks after baby is born for all you know at this stage. She may come back after a couple of months.

What I think is more of a problem right now is the drop in salary, can she really afford to live on that. Even worse is can she afford to live on that if her partner is doing childcare (thus not earning those days). She really needs to look at the finance side of things.

DownsAndUps · 20/01/2014 10:29

I spoke to a lawyer this morning who basically seemed to think we have very few options, if we want to continue with a nanny as childcare in the future. He said that if enter into a new nanny share with a new nanny while our nanny is on mat leave (and who would want us in those circumstances??) then when our nanny wants to come back to work the role has to be offered to her. BUT the other family can refuse to employ her, leaving them with the nanny hired to cover the mat leave, and us with our original nanny. Not ideal for anyone!

On the finance side nannynick we know people who want some temporary care for their child for the coming months so hopefully that will bump up her salary enough to live on. Of course she is more than welcome to seek other better paid employment right away, but sadly that will be tough while she's pregnant.

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OutragedFromLeeds · 20/01/2014 12:56

'BUT the other family can refuse to employ her, leaving them with the nanny hired to cover the mat leave, and us with our original nanny. Not ideal for anyone!'

That's exactly what you and the nanny want isn't? This current nanny, looking after your child. If the other family want to keep the other nanny, fine. You find someone else to share with or she brings her own baby and her pay is reduced accordingly.

Is there any reason you haven't just ,made her redundant and gone to a childminder?

foreverondiet · 20/01/2014 18:14

I would tell her need to cut pay by 40% and explain difficulty in finding another family. After she has the baby she then has the choice to come back for the reduced pay?

If you do find another family it can be a fixed term thing so no maternity pay.

DownsAndUps · 20/01/2014 21:47

Outraged - yes, that would be fine I suppose but not great for the 'new' family and nanny that we had started a new share with. In fact I don't think we'd find another family to go into a share with us if we were holding a job open for someone.
There are no childminders with vacancies near here that pick up from our son's school, which is why we went with a nanny share.

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OutragedFromLeeds · 20/01/2014 22:26

I don't know why you keep referring to it as 'keeping her job open'? She'll be on maternity leave, which is her legal right. It doesn't cost you anything. When you were on maternity leave were you thinking they were 'keeping your job open'? It's your job, someone covered it while you were away, it happens all over the country every day, you're not doing her a favour! Get a temporary nanny to cover her maternity leave.

I do think you'll struggle to find someone to share with. Look at nannies with their own child(ren), who will be happy to work at a reduced rate. Advertise it as 'maternity cover' so they know it's temporary. Or put the baby in a nursery/with a childminder and use either a mother's help or afterschool club for your older child.

DownsAndUps · 21/01/2014 22:07

Outraged I am not disputing it's her legal right to be on maternity leave, but this is a very strange and awkward situation, seeing as how one of her employers has effectively disappeared. And I don't think 'keeping her job open' is a particularly controversial phrase in this circumstance.

There are no places at local nurseries that will be available 4 months from now, and I don't want to put my baby in a nursery anyway. Both my partner and I work up to a 90-min commute from home and can't manage to pick up and drop off two kids from different places even if we did. If an easy solution were available we'd take it.

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OutragedFromLeeds · 21/01/2014 22:40

If the only childcare you can/will use is a nanny, then you need a nanny.

Advertise for someone to cover her maternity leave.

If you can't afford going rate, you can cut costs by;

sharing (I understand this will be tricky, but look for someone it might appeal to; someone else whose childminder/nanny is on ML, someone with older children who will be less fussed about the changeover in carers, someone who only needs a nanny for a short time etc. etc.)
using a NWOC
using a newly qualified/inexperienced nanny
having a live-in nanny
reducing the number of days/hours you need by calling in favours/swapping childcare/asking grandparents/taking holiday/working from home.

OR

Cut your losses, get rid of this nanny and look for someone else. I'm sure in your previous thread you said there were some issues, other than her pregnancy? Focus in on those and get someone else.

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