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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Holiday pay for CM when on long-term sick?

39 replies

NumptyNu · 18/12/2013 21:41

Should CMs expect to receive 'holiday pay' for Xmas if they are currently 'out of action', and have been so for several months, and may be so for another couple of months?

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Cindy34 · 18/12/2013 21:53

I would not have thought so, as they are not currently providing a service. However it would depend on the individual contract between CM and Parents.

HSMMaCM · 18/12/2013 21:54

There is no general rule for CMs as we are self employed and set our own terms. Mine are - if I'm not available my clients do not pay. Others are different.

Why do you ask?

Original poster

NumptyNu · 19/12/2013 22:12

Hi there, I ask because we find ourselves being asked for the payment, despite being in a long (at least six months) of the CM's absence. Under normal circumstances, we've been happy to pay for a week or two of leave at Xmas, but that should only apply when the person is actually working, surely?

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Upcycled · 19/12/2013 22:13

This must be the cheekiest CM in the whole wide world.

DeepThought · 19/12/2013 22:14

oh dear, tricky one

what does your contract say?

birdybear · 19/12/2013 22:15

What? When did you last pay and when did she last work?

YoureBeingASillyBilly · 19/12/2013 22:16

Six months of her being off? what are you doing for childcare? I would have given notice long before now an no i wouldnt pay for holidays whilst she is on sick as the normal service is not currently available.

QuintessentialShadows · 19/12/2013 22:18

Have you been paying for cm services for 6 months without her working?

mercibucket · 19/12/2013 22:22

surely your cm is not actually your cm if she has not been working for 6 months
I wouldn't pay!

Shente · 19/12/2013 22:23

Not a chance! Why are you still her clients? Surely you must have had to find alternative care by now?

Original poster

NumptyNu · 19/12/2013 22:27

She has been with us a long time and has needed some time off (rare previously) for some treatment. She will be off for about 6 mths in total, but hopes to return, so we have a temporary arrangement I'm place for the time being.

I'm just wondering what you would find fair or unfair under these circumstances. It feels a bit cheeky on their part, if I'm honest, but looking for a sense check!

OP posts:

Original poster

NumptyNu · 19/12/2013 22:29

The contract discusses holidays but doesn't cover what happens in a long-term leave situation.

OP posts:

FunkyBoldRibena · 19/12/2013 22:31

Why not actually tell us what's in your contract? Is she paye or self employed? As it's that that will determine whether she is entitled or not.

YoureBeingASillyBilly · 19/12/2013 22:31

If you are very fond of er and intend to use her service agakn then i would probably give her a nice christmas present but i wouldnt be giving money as presumably you have to do this for your current chidlcare provider? She is nuts to expect it, never mind ask!

Shente · 19/12/2013 22:33

Is this actually a nanny then rather than a cm? It sounds like you employ her and wrote the contract rather than the other way round. Perhaps worth getting some legal advice if that is the case as you may have some duty of care towards her if she is an employee.

ReallyTired · 19/12/2013 22:34

No I don't think you should give her holiday pay. She hasn't worked for you for six months. Childminders are self employed and can't demand money for no work. Even the most generous public sector employer would not give any pay after 6 months.

I think you should refuse to pay her any xmas money and terminate. She can take you to the small claims court, but she would be just laughed at. If she refused to return a deposit to you then I am sure that the small claims court would be sympathetic to you.

Original poster

NumptyNu · 19/12/2013 22:36

She is self employed. The contract is basic. And you're right, I don't want to upset her, as she has been a reliable worker, but something is just bugging me about this.

OP posts:

shoom · 19/12/2013 22:37

Give notice and reassess things if and when she returns to childminding.

Pay the holidays only if contractually obliged to do so. Ditto for her sickness absence. She's not an employee, so are you sure you need to pay her while she's not offering you her childminding services?

What are her other clients doing? Or have they all given notice already?

Tbh, if you're willing to pay approx 6 months fee for a service you're not getting, I'm not surprised she's asking for holiday pay too.

Surely the holiday pay is a red herring?

Blondeshavemorefun · 19/12/2013 22:40

Have you been paying her for the last 6mths/since she has been off

And no to holiday pay / but maybe a nice pressie

Self employed people don't normally get paid if they don't work ie ill or holiday / but obv depends what you both agree to via a contract

DeepThought · 19/12/2013 22:48

does she normally work from her own home or does the care take place at your house?

Original poster

NumptyNu · 20/12/2013 08:09

At our house, but only on the day or two with our kids. On other three days she has kids at hers.

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Original poster

NumptyNu · 20/12/2013 08:10

No we haven't been paying while she has been off. Just a bit of holiday pay that had accrued.

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Original poster

NumptyNu · 20/12/2013 08:11

Apologies, I don't want to give too many details away for ID purposes.

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DeepThought · 20/12/2013 08:23

No, no, we understand

For purposes of clarity the person is not a childminder if the care takes place at your home

Truly self employed nannies are incredibly rare so I really think you need to terminate thecontract.

Blondeshavemorefun · 20/12/2013 13:20

If she works at your home then For those days she isn't a cm and shouldn't be self employed

She is a nanny

You can get se nannies / I'm one of them - but that's coz I often work nights as a night nanny/mat nurse and do emergency temping so flit from family to family for anything from a day to a week or few weeks

Anything longer and they need to employ me

Obv not worth employing a nanny for one day - hence why I can be se as a temporary arrangement

Yours is a perm job so legally she can't be self employed iyswim

Also why do both - as in care in your home and hers?

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