Let's discuss reasonable expectations of an au pair (started for Katiejon)

[Strix]

I hope you don't mind me mentioning you, but if we get this conversation going I think you will find it very useful.

In my house, an au pair is treated as an employee. We agree the duties, the hours, the holiday, and whole lot more and put it into a formal contract.

They generally work around 25 - 35 hours per week. They live in your house. They can be asked to do childcare or clean, or run errands. However, I would expect them to experts in none of these things. There is no law restricting the hours they work expect that outlines in EU law.

They get room and board. If they are lucky, they get their own bathroom. Food should be within reason. Mine doesn't ask for a lot. But if she wanted a constant supply of luxury food, she would be disappointed.

Agency contracts are very often lacking in the details and clarifications I require. So take them with a grain of salt and don't be afraid to amend as you see fit.

Now, that ought to get some useful conversation going....

Hi all.
I did devise a daily weekly schedule, which ap said she understood, and then ignored half of!
I now write down 2 or 3 jobs am and pm to get her started.
I add on when she has completed them to my satisfaction.

I think APs in general need to be treated (don't take this the wrong way) as unskilled workers, which means they need tasks broken down into very clear steps with detailed instructions/guidance for each step.

Most AP-family relationships break down because expectations are misaligned. Those may be around duties or cultural expectations of children and behaviour. It may be that the family have higher expectations than it's reasonable to have of your typical AP but in the absence of any actual guidance from the Govt (who helpfully deleted au pair as an immigration status with conditions attached except for A2 nationals) reasonable comes down to what both parties agree and it's then the AP's responsibility to learn to do the job and the family's to manage them.

I my perfect world this is what I'd expect from an au pair and what a family should expect from an au pair. I speak as a ex nanny, now maternity nurse with 15 years experience of living in my work house. Its not easy but it can be very workable with common sense from both sides.

I wish we could do away with the name "au pair" and maybe use "live in home help". Could be "parent help" as well. This would clear up "rules" when in fact in the UK there are no rules on au pairs unless for A2 nationals. It means that the families would be employers and the home help employees. This means they will be covered by laws and as such everyone will have a clear contract that is fair and pay taxes (if needed).

I also think there needs to be a clear understanding of pay while living in. There needs to be a clearer understanding of minimum wage while living in, I do understand there is no minimum wage for live ins but maybe this needs to be stopped. There are some horrific jobs advertised where employers expect 60 hours a week for £70. This is not fair! As there is no official au pair visa anymore then "home help" can work what ever hours are agreed upon however the pay MUST reflect this.

Also as there is no official rules "home help" can work with any ages and unsupervised however it is the employers responsibility to ensure the employee understands safety aspects of child care. The employer should make sure the employee has a first aid cert and I think offer to pay for it if the employee stays the contracted time.

At advertising stage the employer needs to state: area of country, living accom, about employer and family; pay; hours to be worked and what is to be included in those hours.

At interview stage the employer needs to make sure that the "home help" understands that they will be treated as an employee and will be covered by the laws of the country which means they will be treated fairly. I'd also expect a contract to be be drawn up before au pair starts and it to be signed on first day of job.

As a young person (mostly likely) new to the country and maybe homesick and overwhelmed it would help if the employer would have an easy few weeks with acclimatising employee. When the employee arrives there should be a hand book of local activities, a map of the area pointing out where things are, even a gift basket of local products or toiletries. The employer should make the employee feel at home, for the time they are working it is their house too.

As for duties: most of these home helps will have no formal training in child care and as such you can expect them to be more of a baby sitter eg reading stories, heating meals, supervising but unless otherwise stated they will not organise activities themselves until both sides are comfortable.

For cleaning I truly believe that the home help only do light house keeping duties. Eg wiping counters, empty dishwasher, hoover most used parts of the house, wiping sinks (but not toilets unless its theirs only), maybe mopping if meals are mess, folding washing (not ironing). They are not cleaners and will have being bought up with different standards (maybe best to ask at interview stage whether they like to clean?). If employer wants cleaning then they need to contract a cleaner or find a home help that they pay better to do more in depth cleaning. The employer should draw up a list of what is expected to be done each day (or AM/PM), the first week the employer should work alongside the employee to ensure they know what is expected. The next week the employer should let employee get on with it and daily comment on what has being done well and what needs to be worked on (do a shit sandwich makes it nicer for everyone). Now hopefully if the work is fair and the employer has chosen the right employee then there should be no issues. However it is the employers responsibility to continue to ensure the employee is doing the job asked to a reasonable standard. Have a weekly/monthly meeting, do an evaluation form if needed. Thank your employee for any work done especially if they've gone above whats needed. If they are not doing the job adequately give a verbal then verbal warning and if needed get the to leave. It will not work if the employer is feeling frustrated. It will not work if the employee is not doing the job. But it can work with good communication on both sides.

I'm in the process of writing a book about working with household staff especially live ins. It can be a very difficult job as every employer has different standards and its hard not having an "off" time. I've had some great experiences over the years and can say that the best ones have treated me like a human and if I've needed to improve on anything they've said it constructively and in return I've gone over an above my duties. There is also got to be a little give and take from both sides. It is a very fine balancing act.

I think au pairs and employers need to engage and discuss duties, hours, all aspects of the contract be fore they sign on the dotted line. Just as with any job, it is a two way street.

But let's talk bout what is fair for an au pair.

I currently have an employee who sits somewhere between au pair and live in nanny. She looks after the kids and is supposed to do their laundry, cook for them, homework, mealtime, etc. in reality there aren't that many hours in a day. DH tend to chip in and do laundry, and I chip in with children's activities on the way home from work. No on complains. We just all muck in. However, if I find the children eating food which doesn't meet my nutritional requirements, no doubt I will speak up loud and clear.

As with all employees, she is fantastic with some things (organises children's book by title and genre) and not so good at other (discipline -- although she is improving). That's okay. Overall she is fab, I love her, she loves us, and I dread the day she decides to move on.

So hard to talk about whats fair when every household is different. It depends on hours needed to be worked and pay. Basically if the "au pair" is been paid a good rate of pay for tasks required then its fair.

However if a standard "au pair" job of 25 hours per week for £80. I'd expect this 7-9am - help children get breakfast, empty dishwasher; help children get ready for school and take them, leaving kitchen as it was found.

3-6pm - Pick children up, prepare meal as per employers specs (discussed at interview), supervise homework but not expect to help, fold washing and encourage children to put away. Keep children safe. Leave kitchen as it was found.

Au pair should not be picking up after parents. Could do light cleaning of communal areas eg hoover living room but not under furniture, sweep/mop kitchen however not while with children so that would need to be paid extra and earlier start eg 2pm. Could also add in nursery duties eg childrens washing; tidy children's rooms but also allow extra time PLUS pay. Could take turn emptying rubbish bins, taking wheelie bins out.

I would not expect "au pair" to clean bathrooms (unless its her own private one); do anything for parents eg making their beds, cleaning their rooms, laundry; clean windows; deep clean any area of the house or ironing (probably others as well just can't think). If the family requires any of this cleaning that is fine as long as its in contract however it will require higher pay with more allocated child free hours to complete tasks.

When I live in I treat it much the same as a house share: I'll leave things as tidy and clean as I find it (I will not generally tidy after parents unless I know they're extra busy/stressed but will stop if I see that I'm always picking up after them); I'll empty rubbish as long as its not me just doing it; I'll make a few meals a week.

Maybe it would be good to critique a few ads and then we can see whats fair for "au pair" and family?

The most important qn when it comes to 'being fair' is making sure that your expectations have been clearly communicated and agreed to. And that list of expectations needs to be culturally explicit, too.

So, you set out the basics - hours, pay, overtime, holiday pay and arrangements, accommodation, kids details

Then you set out anything that might be fair in your eyes, but what you lnow isnt standard (for some people that would be cleaning. In our house au pair is responsible for ensuring the pigs are fed by the kids. Everyone will be different here). Strix's original list sets out the boundaries of the standard pretty well, I think, and there are similar lists on au pair sites, so if you want something on top, then you need to be very clear about it.

Then you set out anything about your household/set-up that isn't standard. Eg living 10 miles from a bus stop, having kids with SN, working from home 24/7, etc.

Then you think carefully about what young people are like, what countries they are likely to come from, etc, and you list out stuff you will/will not tolerate. Eg I tolerate boyfriends staying over and piercings/punk outfits; I don't tolerate eating crisps in the house. It may be a warped moral compass, but its my warped moral compass and as its my house, my rules are the ones we abide by. This is also where you work out whether someone is first and forest to be an employee or a member of the family. Mixing both is where things get very very messy. I'm with Strix on this - I treat my au pairs as professionally as I would a work colleague and I hire in the hope but not the requirement that we will get on like a house on fire. But I have friends who look for 'big sisters' and bring their au pairs along to everything and that works, too. What you can't do is expect both, because if you hire 'holistically' then whenever you criticise something they do it can be interpreted by them that you are cruising them, not their actions. The more professional you are the easier it is to say that such and such is not being done properly.

Once all of that is set out, then you find the right match. At that point i would always recommend that you draft a private list of what you will and will not let slide, all other things being equal. I now know my own list off by heart but when you are new to au pairs I think you have an unrealistic idea in your head that they will instantly meet all your expectations. They won't.

I have also worked as live in mothers help /nanny .

I had list of what was expect on each day . But you have to remember in doing this some can speak English well but not necessary read it well.

You need to alway think what you need to be done best is it be really good with the kids or a brilliant cleaner.

And show the way you like things done. I.e what things you iron and what you don't . Or whatever silly rules your house has mine is the hangers must all be hooked on the same way.

Knew strix hated white bread and Nutella but didn't know you hated crisps squiffy

That counts me out lol

Seriously what mrs wishywashy said - 7/9 get kids up breakfast take to school - unload dw etc and then 3/6ish and pick up from
School. Help with homework if possible and cook tea

Aps are not cleaners and unless stated in interview exactly what the family want then how can they know? As all families are different

See my au pair actually liked washing up and ironing. I was more than happy to delegate those tasks in return for some stuff that I'd anticipated her doing. She, on the other hand, was a very neat person and I am not naturally tidy so she probably did spend time cleaning up after me not that I expected her to. Sometimes it's worth having a list of what you want to delegate and what needs doing and if they're under performing in one area swap it out for a chore they're better at.

The biggest issue I see in ads is hours/pay - too much for way too little. Then it's the right number of hours with a huge list of duties that won't fit into those hours.

As part of the remuneration package I do think it's important to take the language and cultural component into account. The principle reason they're working for crap pay is to improve their English. The opportunity to do that needs to be built into their week and it's reasonable to expect an au pair to want that too. So it's not reasonable to block off the only hours the local college offers an ESOL class.

Maybe it's just easier to list what are unreasonable expectations!

Heavy cleaning - scrubbing floors, cleaning windows (I don't count mopping because if you spill on our kitchen floor it needs localised mopping!)
Full time childcare - the exception being the odd day or week in school holidays for extra pay
Regular or extended unsupervised childcare of under 3s - unless it's wraparound nursery care
Anything you don't do yourself

There is general agreement in this thread so I guess my view will stir the discussion up a bit - sorry!
I have a very different approach. I treat au pairs as a part of family - a 20yr old one at home who gets pocket money and is expected to chip in with chores.
except for school pick-up times (i do drop-offs myself) and after-school activities drop-off and pick-up times I am not really concrete with au pairs. On all other duties I give general guidance and correct as we go along.
For example
I just ask them to make tea for DS (I show products and in the first week cook myself so that they see what he likes but that's about it), ask to do general tidying and hoovering (no time indication etc - just saying "so that flat looks ok). I had 1 au pair who hoovered on Mondays and by Friday the living room didn't look good, so I asked her to tidy up again on Fridays, the other au pair was hoovering every day and I said to her, it is not needed. I don't ask them to clean bathrooms, actually I say don't worry about bathrooms, but if they do I don't mind. I make big shopping and leave 20 quid on the table if anything else is needed - when money is spent (all receipts are supplied though I never explicitly ask for them) I put more. One of our au pairs did like luxury food, so 20 quid was spent in a heartbeat, I didn't say anything but didn't put more straightaway. She got the hint.
I spent a lot of time with them in the first month, then they usually prefer to be left alone :) If we buy takeaway, go for a lunch on Sunday they are always invited. When one of our au pairs arrived from Spain in the middle of winter in very light jacket I lent her one of my winter jackets and didn't ask for it before she found smth and gave it back to me herself.
Even though half of the year I have my mum nearby and the au pairs work 10 hours a week maximum if at any other time I ask for extra evenings or extra time in general I pay extra. I pay for all parking fines they get (just asking them to be careful next time).
They all love our family, they love me and always stay longer than a year. Not even once have I got no from them (touch wood) when I asked for extra time though my work is unpredictable and that happens on ad-hoc basis.
I am not saying my way is the right way, but I just thought if my child at the age of 20-23 appear to be in another country not understanding language and living in a family I would want that family to treat him as part of family rather than employee hence I use this approach.

Mikulkin - your post describes exactly how a au pair position should be, you sound lovely no wonder you've had good experiences.

Nowadays though posts like yours are few. Families expect five star cleaning, full child care and working for many hours per week for minimal pay they then have the cheek to complain when au pairs do not meet their standards. You get what you pay for and I wish some families would understand that.

I think you've also been quite lucky finding self-starters though. 'Until the flat looks tidy' just wouldn't have worked for our live in nanny (not that tidying was her job but DS's toys, clothes etc were) because her room always looked like a bombsite. I had to very specifically and calmly say what I wanted. I expect the same tidying up toys etc from an au pair but I didn't have to spell it out to her because they were just entirely different people.

Equally having a contract etc doesn't preclude treating them as a member of the family. We share takeaways, buy favourite foods (within reason), provide anything they might be lacking when they arrive or if there's heavy snowfall halfway through their stay(!) - IMO that's common courtesy for someone living in your home. I suppose the big differences in the relationship we had between our live in nanny and au pair were the weekends initially, and the language. Otherwise both were very much a member of the family but both had a contract and certain expectations because I don't have the time or patience to micro-manage a live in nanny and for our au pair it was much easier to have everything written and provide her with a bilingual dictionary so she could understand what we needed her to do. Plus I already had a contract that I could adjust to reflect the hours and duties I expected from an au pair.