Tax advice from part time nanny-nanny nick etc

[Herhonesty]

So we offered a lovely nanny a role with 33 hours per week, 9 net, tues-thurs, about 2 months ago to start in jan. Contracts still not signed. Today she emails this(see below). Aside from whether or not she wants the job is she right? Am I looking for the impossible?

"So I have registered with lots of agencies and they have all advised me to not take a job for tues, weds, Thurs as it is unheard of to take those days even if they are flexible. Some agencies have had over 20 years experience and they really advice against it.

I have looked into it more as I have been made aware the second family you are employed by have to pay more tax as the first family get your £9000 allowance. So the family with less days will actually end up paying more tax than the 3 day family. Also the fact that it is a Monday and Friday they are when all the bank holidays fall and they would get the short straw.

So I am not sure the days you require are going to work for me. "

Cant advise in tax, but my nanny was willing to do Tues-Thurs but only because she unusually had a Fri-Sat job. It can be v hard to get a nanny who needs a full week as v few jobs offer Mon & Fri.

Whilst it may be difficult for her to get a Mon& Fri 2nd job the tax & bank holidays thing us a total red herring

It is true that her tax code will be used in her first & main job but the tax is deducted from her wages in both jobs.

And she would be entitled to the sane amount if statutory holidays pro rata in both jobs (17 days with you & 11 days with a 2 day per week employer)

The 2nd employer may well kit have to pay employer NI contributions if her pay for two days is under the lower earnings level too.

But to simplify things you really should not be agreeing a net wage (it must be gross or she could apply to have her tax code split or even worse for you sign a P46 saying her other job is her main one & you will be clobbered.

Convert your net offer to gross & have that put in the contract.

Thanks pictures, that's what I have done... I think agency are stringing her along

?????? That's the most bizarre email I've read in a long time. If you want those days then that's what you want and have offered and she accepted.

Holidays are pro rata 5.6 weeks which includes Babk Holidays, so technically someone who works Mondays only doesn't necessarily get all Bank Holidays off. There is no absolute right to having them as holiday anyway.

As for tax a gross wage is a gross wage. If you agreed net then make sure you put gross based on a 944L tax code, and only gross, in the contract and politely suggest that she negotiates with any other employer in gross terms too. It is her tax to pay, not yours although you deduct it.

I'm not sure what she was looking to gain by this email? If I got that in my inbox I'd probably be withdrawing the offer and readvertising!

It is really irrelevant what she does on the other two days as you'd be her main employer and she would get a different tax code for the second job. But as she wants/needs to work 5 days a week she's realised it won't be easy to find another job to fit around your days which is true but not impossible. Unless you can be flexible and move a day so the job is Mon-Weds or Weds-Fri I would leave it and go back to searching again. Even if she accepts the days you offered the chances are she's going to keep on looking for better days so that she can fit another job in easily.
Others are right ... you must agree on gross wage.

Contract is grossed up so no concerns there. I am a little annoyed as I feel she is trying to push me to change for her convenience, it should really be about mine! Don't like feeling pushed into a corner.

She's getting 33 hours and would pick hours up left right and centre once she started... I've already had loads of mothers asking if she'll have any free hours

She sounds young/inexperienced when it comes to contract jobs as an employee and she has therefore sought advice from ana agency. Agencies tend to say things like this and you believe you have to follow there word..

Therefore if she seemed nice and you want her and would be stuck otherwise, I would just politely put back to her that the days offered were the days she accepted, and if she feels differently about that she will need to reject your offer so you can re advertise the position to someone else. However if you would still like the Tuesday-Thursday job with us we would be delighted and friends have already asked if you can do extra hours with them, therefore I feel you will easily find extra work and might even be self employed for those extra ad hoc hours.

X

how weird, i like working tue to thur, or mon to wed, ie 3 days and not a friday, but i wont do a split week as means i cant go away for a long/4 day weekend if i want to

yes its harder to find mon and fri job, but if you/they discuss gross then the tax element wont come into it

holidays would be pro rota

I have looked into it more as I have been made aware the second family you are employed by have to pay more tax as the first family get your £9000 allowance. So the family with less days will actually end up paying more tax than the 3 day family.

Well it isn't £9000 allowance, it's £9440 and it changes... goes up to £10,000 in April 2014 I believe.

The problem as you and others have identified is Net Wages. The cost to other employers is Gross Salary + Employers NI, the same as it is for you. The tax code changes are not a cost to the employer IF they have agreed a Gross salary. Tax code changes how much income tax and employee national insurance the employer deducts on the employees behalf. Resulting in different take home pay to if the job was using full personal allowance.

"they have all advised me to not take a job for tues, weds, Thurs as it is unheard of to take those days even if they are flexible."
I have had a 3 day a week nanny job in the past and yes finding work to fit around it can be tricky. However not everyone wants to find work to fit around it, not everyone wants to work full time especially as full time in nannying can be 50 hours+.

As has already been mentioned, holiday entitlement is not an issue as it is calculated the same as for any other job... minimum 5.6 x days worked per week (or hours per week).

If they did Tue, Wed, Thurs for you, then Monday Bank Holidays and Good Friday would be days they did not work for you and thus if their employer on those days did not want them to work those days, they would need to use their annual leave for that. 2x5.6=11.2 and in 2014 of the 8 bank holidays, 6 will be on a Monday or a Friday. The other two are Wed and Thursday. In 2015, 7 are Mon or Fri, 1 is a Thursday. (Source) It changes year to year but a bit more than 1/2 their holiday entitlement in a 2 day a week job could be used by bank holidays.

I've already had loads of mothers asking if she'll have any free hours.

Not sure how that helps unless there are people willing to commit to employing this nanny on Monday or Friday or both. A few hours on odd occasions is probably not what this nanny is looking for, they are probably looking for work for both the days. Is that the impression you get?

Does she or does she not want the job? You really need to know as you won't have long to find a replacement.

well we've decided to let it go and look for someone new rather than offer her more hours or shift stuff around to suit her. I think a little bit of my trust has gone which isn't a great way to start a relationship!

thanks for all your advice!!