nanny salary if she has her own children

[milkwasabadchoice]

Hi, I'm planning to employ a nanny to look after DD (aged 3) and DS (aged 1). The nanny I've found has her own DS1 (aged 5) and DS2 (aged 1).

She has asked for £10 an hour, net. I know I have to work out and agree a gross rate with her.

But what do people think of this rate, please?

We are in Sussex, and she has about 4 year experience as a nanny and 4 as a CM. She's going to look after mine at her house for two of the four days she is working for me. Her DS1 will mostly be at school, apart from holidays, but her DS2 will be with her all the time.

My gut feel is that we should be paying her slightly less, since she has her own child/children too. Or am I a miser...?

Yes a nwoc should earn less. Average is 20% less so £8 nett but discuss gross so maybe £10gross

Very lucky to take 2 kids with her - so maybe I would do 25/30 less

I doubt the looking after at her house works as a nanny but you would need to check - I thought she would have to register as a childminder. But no way would I pay that wage for someone with 2 of their own kids.

£10 net per hour is the sort of wage that a nanny with 8+ years experience would be looking for (without children to bring). So definitely less if she is bringing 2 children with her.

Also, if she is planning on having your children at her own house she MUST register as a childminder for those days.

Just reread and see that she has experience as a childminder so it could be that her registration is still active.

Will she be doing the school run for her child or is someone else minding him before and after school?

That's a cheeky ask for someone a) bringing her own children and b) actually childminding, not nannying two days pw.

Are you sure you want a nanny woc 3 days and a childminder 2 days?

... and even if you are, you'd be a bit of a mug to pay £10nph for it IMO.

£12-£13 gross seems a bit high for shared care. I would try to get that down 30% or so, as with the additional costs you will have as the employer it is going to be higher than you would be paying a childminder I would have thought. Are you needing hours of care which a childminder would not do?

The two days in their home (as a childminder, so they dictate the cost and you pay them the fee) and 2 days at your home (where you pay them but deduct tax, ni and pay employers ni plus all expenses for outings) I do not feel is good. Muddy water comes to mind... are they a childminder, are they a nanny, can you tell them what to do. 2 days you can tell them what to do, 2 days you can't.

Why do they want to do 2 days at their home? I feel they either need to be a childminder, or a nanny, not both for same family. Fine if different families but in your case it makes for very muddy water for you to both swim through. Two different relationships with the same person, it's going to be a challenge.

Her DS1 will be at school but only for 6 hours, possibly less/more. Your children will have to take her DS1 to school, even on days when you would rather they didn't... Snow, kids feeling unwell. Your children do not need to be up in the morning, they don't have to be dressed by say 8:15am, where as with her having to take her DS1 to school, your children will need to be up, dressed and ready to leave the house.

That is why salary for a nwoc is lower, some benefits of having a nanny are eroded as the nannies own child does get priority at times, such as getting that child to school on time.

Logistics - 4 children all needing carseats. Got a big car?

I think that's far to high - I agree with £8/net, especially since she'll have 2 children with yours in the holidays.
She can't have the children at her house without being a registered childminder.

TBH - You could easily get someone cheaper and as qualified without their own children too. I'd look again.

For 13 weeks a year she will be caring for 4 children all day of which 2 are her own and the remaining 39 weeks your DC will have to endure a school run before they actually need to and 2 days a week they won't even be in their own home. Nothing wrong with this if you are happy but I certainly wouldn't be paying out nanny rate of £12/13ph for what sounds like more of a cm set-up (unless getting a cm for your 2 will cost more than this).
Also logistics of not being in your home mean she surely won't be able to do any other nanny duties such as children's cleaning, laundry etc?

Sorry missed the part that she will be at hers for 2 days

Read it as for 2 days she would bring her kids iyswim

Makes mental note - must read threads properly

For that salary you could get a nanny without children who did all 4 days at your home and who does household duties in addition to childcare. So if £12-13 per hour was the budget you were looking at, look at other nannies. Don't get involved with complex things like 2 days nanny, 2 days childminder.

So who would pay for your children's meals, activities, car expenses, etc. on the days that she works from her own home? Would she pay for these as she is effectively childminding on those days?

it seems more like a CM scenario to me, esp if the care is in her own home. I pay my CM £4.20/hr gross (per child) so I think £10 net is OTT.

As always, whether £x an hour is good, bad or indifferent depends where you are and what local rates are like. As far as I can tell, that depends largely on property process, but there are anomalies. I suspect £5 an hour per child in the south east is a pretty normal CM rate. I wouldn't recommend muddying the water by having some sort of hybrid nanny/CM arrangement (especially using the same person for both roles) as you may have all sorts of issues and expenses you have npt anticipated (payroll costs, holiday and sick pay for example).

Argh! I knew it was going to be complicated - and it is!

A few things I should have said - sorry for drip feed:

She won't do school drop-ff for her DS1 - her mum will do that every day. And she'll pick him up on two days (those being the days she'll be based at her home.)

Also, I do kind of need a "nanny/CM" who will be based somewhere other than my home for one or two days per week, because I sometimes need to work from home. She is registered as a CM.

So it is an unusual arrangement, but hopefully not as completely mad as some of you may think.

Still, I would now be more confident to argue that it should be approx £10 gross not net.

Or I should look again. Thing is, she's lovely.

thanks for the input, everyone.

To me the whole set up sounds confusing and difficult and really not something I'd want to have. How will you know whether she is acting as "childminder" or "nanny"? I'm not an expert in childminding but they are expected to have lots of policies and procedures and these may not be as appropriate if she is nannying. What about insurance, car seats etc? Are you an employer or a service user? What about illness - hers, her kids or your kids?

If you need to work from home can't she just take the children out and about more on those days?

She will need to comply with law, as will you. It is not going to be simple but is possible. You will need to very clearly define the times she is providing you with a service as a childminder, and the times you are her employer.

Talk to a payroll company about the tax side of things. Your job may use all of personal tax allowance, so it may be fine. Though she will need to realise that when she does her childminding accounts she won't have her tax allowance to take into account.

Many nannies work when their employer works from home, it is possible to do, though does depend on size of house and ability for the parent to shut themselves away so they can't hear too much noise the children may make.

Please be very clued up on the legal side - childcare law, employment law in particular.

Will her mum really want to commit to taking her grandson to school every day? Many grandparents want a life of their own. Is this a new arrangement or something grandma has been doing for some time?

She may be lovely but I feel she needs to decide if she is a nanny or a childminder.

You need to decide if you need a nanny or a childminder.

Could you not just use her as a childminder all 4 days? Then you don't need to get involved with being the employer, though you do have to get your children to/from her home all 4 days and she won't be at your home to do the children's laundry.

As a childminder, how much does she currently charge her clients?

Agree you need to decide if you want a nanny or a cm

Fine to have both but really need diff people

Working from home can cause difficulties but only if you don't lay down the rules - ie door shut mummy working - handy to have a lock on inside so kids can't open and barge in

Also if kids crying let nanny deal with it

If you were willing and happy and can afford £13 gross - good wage for exp nanny then I would look again and find a nanny who doesn't have kids or maybe just one as also have the complication of 2 school runs a week when ideally your 2 will just be waking up from a nap - plus homework

The 2 1yrs will need to have roughly the same routine and will your eldest be starting nursery soon and what happens if she did 9-3 and need picking up - how would this lady be in 2 places at once?

Thinking longer term as blondes suggests is a good idea. Whilst it may work now, would it work in a years time, or 5 years time? A great nanny can stay with a family for many years, so do consider what issues may come up in future and what, if anything you can do to minimise those. Time flies quick and it won't be that long till your eldest starts school... what happens then?

What made you feel you need a nanny? By having a nwoc are you compromising on the benefits of having a nanny? Is it worth seeing if anyone else will apply for the job?

God, if only I were still looking! I get £10 gross in Lewes, it'll go up to £10.50 gross in my new job in the new year elsewhere in Sussex! I'd love £10net, that'd be nice, I don't even have my own kids to bring.

The cost should probably be whatever 2 x her hourly childminding rate is. (For me that would be 2 x £5 so £10 per hour gross) For her nannying hours then she is a nanny at that rate and has tax etc deducted at source by you/payroll company - for her childminding hours she is responsible for her tax etc on her earnings.

You would need to discuss everything very comprehensively first though - eg a nanny would be entitled to paid holiday, a childminder can set her own terms, so some charge for holidays, others don't. Also for the 2 days per week from her house as a childminder, she would probably be allowed to take on another 2 children, as the standard maximum number is 6 under 8 yr olds of which 3 can be under 5. If you don't want her to have extras then this is not actually your decision, if she is, at that point, your childminder not your nanny.....

I have worked as both and the relationship with parents is very different in each case, so being both to the same family would need a lot of working out.

I can see it being a tricky relationship to manage.

£10 gross in Sussex isn't particularly high for a nanny.
However £5/£6 per hour per child is the going rate for childminders where I am.

It depends on what she actually is ........

I don't think this is going to work, sorry. You will have to have 2 separate contracts, one for her 2 days as a nanny (when she is your employee) and one for her 2 days as acm (when you are not her employer - you are her client) As a cm she has to have all necessary paperwork in place for each child in her care.

This is a really difficult situation - 2 days out of 4 you are the employer and effectively call the shots - the other 2 days she is a self employed individual who can, within reason, do what she wants. Including taking on other children - how would you feel about that?