Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Flip

Original poster

Does anyone else have an arrangement for a friend to look after dc regularly ?

11 replies

Sleepymumof4x · 19/10/2013 22:26

ok I know I'm going to get told how awful I am but here it is.
I have 4 dc and work .
we had the best cm ever for many many years and she retired last year.
I met with several cm and tbh not one felt right .
I met an old friend one day who was a nanny and was almost coming to the end of nannying for a family as last dc was off to boarding school.
basically I knew instantly that she would be perfect.
She was everything I could possibly want for the other most important person in my dd life.
She had dd for a couple of mornings and they clicked.
When I say clicked I honestly mean they have the best relationship we could ever wish for.
We have seriously outgrown our home so agreed that we could drop dd off with her in the mornings and then when dd has had breakfast they usually come back here .
I have always paid her cash in hand and tbh she almost always spends most of it on dd . She buys her clothes and books ect and always insists I don't give her the money .
We have since made this person dd s god mother and feel totally blessed to have her in our lives.
I know she isn't a cm and we shouldn't pay cash in hand and she shouldn't be looking after dd in her own home as a nanny. We also know she should be of Ofstead reg . but she does have a paed first aid cert and has nannied all over the world. her daughters are our daughters friends and she is a long time trusted family friend. I wouldn't want dd to be with anyone else . I trust her completely .
Someone recently expressed concern ( a friend who is a reg cm ) about her nannying in her own home .
without judging please can someone tell me what could happen as I really don't want to lose her. well I know I wouldn't because she really would do it for free and more or less does tbh . She does not want to reg as a cm and only wants my dd . We are quite happy to carry on both of us but I just would like to know lawfully how bad this could be if anyone could advise please ??

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

sonlypuppyfat · 19/10/2013 22:31

So if you stopped paying her would it be ok? I have no experience of childminders but without the cash bit she would be just a friend helping you out.

ceeveebee · 19/10/2013 22:39

I think (but might be wrong) that as a nanny she would be allowed up to 2 hours a day in her own home without being classed as a childminder?
However, you should register as an employer rather than pay cash on hand, but you probably already know that

nannynick · 19/10/2013 22:50

What could happen is that someone reports her to the regulator (Ofsted if you are in England) and they may or may not do anything. They may take a softly softly approach, such as writing to her informing her of the regulations. They may make a visit.

Read more in the CIE Handbook - 4.5a Unregistered Services is the document which is most useful in this situation.

Original poster

Sleepymumof4x · 19/10/2013 23:36

Thanks for your replies . She is a qualified nneb . So if I register as an employer ( no I had no idea was meant to ) that means its ok to gove her some money and as long as she only has dd at her house for 2 hours ?
Can they ever prove I do give her some money or am I being very naive ?

OP posts:

NomDeClavier · 20/10/2013 01:16

HMRC could do an investigation via bank records and tbh putting it on a forum isn't terribly smart. You could be liable for all the unpaid contributions plus a fine. She could be barred from registering with OFSTED in the future, but they're more likely to make her aware in the first instance that she shouldn't in her home doing this. She may get fined for undeclared earnings as part of the time is in her home. That's the worst case scenario. If you (or your DP) work in a regulated profession then HMRC prosecuting you could be problematic.

As a nanny she doesn't need to be registered but equally she shouldn't be in her home - even exploiting the 2hr rule is pushing it. If she were in yours FT then the only person doing anything wrong is you so if by registering as an employer everything becomes hunk dory once again, as long as you pay minimum wage, respect her employment rights and have appropriate insurance in place.

Alternatively she can do it in her own home all the time but you can't give her cash or cash equivalent.

Original poster

Sleepymumof4x · 20/10/2013 07:26

Well I've had a quick look and don't think I do have to reg as an employer ?? She only has dd one day occasionally more and my bank records would support no regular payments as I literally give her cash to spend on themselves ie bus fares lunch out ect certainly no way near the tax or PAYE

OP posts:

NomDeClavier · 20/10/2013 12:01

How much do you pay her and does she have any other income?

Payment over the threshold in any one week triggers RTi and then you have to report each pay period.

If she has any other income you have to report all payments.

Original poster

Sleepymumof4x · 20/10/2013 12:18

Hi thanks for reply .
The most I have ever paid her is 90 and that week was because I asked her. buy dd new shoes as they were in town that day . She has no orhee paid job just a few hours voluntary at local hosp sometimes

OP posts:

FlorenceMattell · 20/10/2013 12:41

Show her this thread and discuss:
Option one; as child's Godmother she can look after child whenever and wherever she wants; if not for payment. Obviously if buying shoes etc for child you would give her that money. And pay for lunch out.
Option two; register as an employer and pay least minimum wage. agree gross amount, you will find any pension she has may mean her paying tax on amount. You may or may not have to pay NI.
I would talk to her. From what you have wrote doesn't sound like she wants money is doing it for a friend.

looselegs · 21/10/2013 11:21

The other problem you have is that she has no public liability insurance to cover her.So,if,for example,your child has a life changing accident in her home,then you have no way of claiming off her to help towards that childs care,your loss of earnings (if you had to give up work to care for her) etc. She should also be registered as self employed so she can pay her own NI contributions.
The only other way is for her to do it for free,without any cash or other gifts from you as payment.

Blondeshavemorefun · 21/10/2013 19:42

i dont get why she cant look after your dd in your house, you say you have outgrown it, but surely you cope there, so whats the difference in you being there or her?

then you dont need to worry about the 2hr rule - unless she is just being a friend looking after her goddaughter in her own home - but then you are paying her, tho sounds like not a huge amount

so either you pay her and she looks after in your home, or you dont pay her at all (and surely as much as she may love dd, she needs money to pay bills etc)

Flip