Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Flip

Original poster

Can I be self employed nanny? HELP

20 replies

k8thegr8 · 28/08/2013 20:43

I work for two different families now . One mon-wed the other thur-fri. Can I now become self employed?mthese are going to be long term jobs??

Help im so confused.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Original poster

k8thegr8 · 28/08/2013 20:44

Also how do I go about it? Like,paying my tax and national insurance! Stressed im gong to end up with a huge bill!

OP posts:

hettienne · 28/08/2013 20:48

No, not from the sounds of it. You have two part time jobs.

Why would you want to be self-employed anyway? You won't get holidays, sick pay, maternity leave etc.

TenToWine · 28/08/2013 20:49

No. You have 2 employments. Law is clear. Both employers are responsible for administering PAYE etc.

Original poster

k8thegr8 · 28/08/2013 20:55

But I do choose when I take time off etc? And am going full time in sept during term time for one family then back to the two during hols?

If I can't be self employed, then where should I be looking for nanny tax or what ever its called?

One employer is an accountant and does this for me the other fa,ily whom ill go full time with is not so I need to pay ax etc on that job

OP posts:

Gigondas · 28/08/2013 21:02

You can't be self employed as both families are dictacting when/where/how you work.

The family not doing your tax are wrong (in fact they are committing a crime). They are obliged to operate payroll tax (Paye/nic) on your salary as other family do. Whether they with it out or get payroll company to do it is their decision.

If they don't do it , they will face civil/criminal penalties.

And At the inevitable excuses as to why they don't pay.

Gigondas · 28/08/2013 21:03

And choosing time off is presumably no more than me asking my employer when I can take holiday and they having right to approve .

hettienne · 28/08/2013 21:11

Your employer needs to deduct your tax for you and give you a payslip. They have to register with HMRC. They can either sort it out themselves or use a payroll company.

Original poster

k8thegr8 · 28/08/2013 21:23

Ok, we'll basically, I said I'd get the account employer to sort my wages for both jobs, but as I'm going full time and "leaving" the accountancy family, I feel having them do my wages sort of makes me "have" to return to them, when actually I'm really happy in my new job (happier than ive even been, its like two different worlds) and feel I'd like to leave. So this is where I'm stuck. My new family do have an accountant for their business. ( A rival of my currant boss) Is it rude of me to explain the above? And say I'd rather they did it?

Arghhh I'm in such a stress at the minute!! :( :(

OP posts:

hettienne · 28/08/2013 21:27

Yes, just tell them they need to do payroll themselves.

Gigondas · 28/08/2013 21:31

Not rude-normal so just ask.

Cindy34 · 29/08/2013 05:54

So not to confuse their personal accounts with their business accounts, maybe suggest they look at specialist nanny payroll services like PAYEforNannnies.

I agree with the others that from what you describe you don't fit self employment, the families are still having a lot of control.

nannynick · 29/08/2013 09:43

New families accountant could operate the PAYE scheme but it is important to realise that you work for the family not the business.

Treat the two jobs as separate employments, then when the time is right you can resign from the job you dislike.

Nanny payroll companies do often offer free advice to parents and nannies so your new employer could contact a nanny payroll company and compare cost to that which their business accountant would charge. Also as the payroll company often just does nanny payroll they know what can and can't be done, where as a general accountant may not have as much employee payroll experience, plus access to employment law advice.

Up to the parents to sort it out. You need payslip with every payment, P60 in May, P45 when leaving job.

If you were to be self employed you would need more control, you would set pay rate at probably close to double what you get as an employee, would take as much holiday as you like, advertise for other clients and not guarentee to be available when people wanted you, in general far more ad-hoc than what you describe.

ConfusedPixie · 30/08/2013 11:57

Nope, I asked her not long ago as was in the same situation and was told under no circumstances we oils it be self employed even though my hours in one job were very changeable.

Sunny25 · 31/08/2013 14:36

I think your families can end up with the huge tax bills not you, a nanny can not be self employed. For example in London lots of my nanny friends earn £10/£11 net(take home) but really their employers are paying £13/£14 gross (with taxes). Maybe they want you self employed to save money but if they get found I've been told they end with the tax bill as you are employed. Is it cash in hand?

Original poster

k8thegr8 · 01/09/2013 21:14

Hi sorry, been away on hols!

So I had a chat and explained the above to my new employer.

I've picked the days hours etc i work, I can work,as,much or little as I want, and take hols when I choose she says.

I earn no where near the normal nanny rate per hour £7.50 (I set this rate) before tax!

Who/what would I ring to,speak about this.

I also have a small hobby where I sell things, could this be included?

So confusing

OP posts:

Cindy34 · 01/09/2013 21:37

Ask the Status Customer Service Team for a decision.

Why do you want to be self employed? £7.50 per hour surely will not leave you with much... look into what you would need to pay out, such as Class 2 (I think) national insurance, having some advertising stuff, doing end of year accounts... would you do that yourself or use an accountant?

If you are determined to be self employed then HMRC may not stop you. Remember that most work you do will be employed, so it is only the ad-hoc work where you have more control over when you do the work that would be self employed. You may be able to include the hobby in the self employment, is it related?

missimperfect · 01/09/2013 21:39

IF you are self employed YOU will have to register with HMRC as self employed. YOU will have to pay a separate national insurance each week that applies to self employed people. YOU will have to fill in a self assessment form each year and pay your tax. No one else will pay the tax for you - the family wont have to pay any taxes and additional national insurance - YOU will be responsible for all your taxes and this will have to come out of the money you have earned. You will not be entitled to sick pay, holiday pay or any other benefits. It really is not to your benefit at all to even try to claim to be self employed. It only benefits the family who will not have to pay any taxes. Why would you try and do this??

Not only that, but HMRC have pretty much said that nannies are not self employed, the only exception being nannies who operate as temporary nannies to fill in in an emergency for a day or two - a bit like supply teachers who fill in at schools. Those nannies don't have a regular family they go to so they might fit the description of self employed. So by trying to claim you are self employed you are creating a lot of problems for yourself and you are probably risking that HMRC will come after you or the family you work for and chase up your taxes.

The family needs to stick by the proper rules and treat you as an employee.

Cindy34 · 01/09/2013 21:57

What advantage do you get from being self employed? I am not really seeing it. Do you really want to do any work for this 'client' who seems to be telling you what to do, not you telling them which is what you would be doing if you were self employed.

How about getting some Starting Your Own Business books from the library and having a read of those, they will take you through the basics of a starting a business and you can use the web to find out current rates for things like the national insurance and tax on profits.

Do not be pushed into something by someone else. If this 'client' is after occasional childcare, decide if that is a viable business for you to offer them and other clients. If you had said £15 an hour, then I may agree it is more viable but at £7.50 I think you selling your service much to cheaply. Would be surprised if any temp nannies charge as low as that.

Blondeshavemorefun · 01/09/2013 22:37

you set your rate at £7.50gross - why are you so low?

maybe you want famillies to want you , so you ask for a lower rate then average?

i dont get why you want to be se?

i am se, as i do maternity night work and also a temporary nanny, so flit from job to job, some im a day there, others a few days/maybe a week or two if covering a nanny on holiday/ill etc

but i earn a good rate of pay to cover my ni as well as tax

but

i dont get smp/sick pay/holidays and one day i will be back with a perm family and be employed again and get the above benefits

ConfusedPixie · 01/09/2013 22:47

K8, I hate to say it, but I still don't think you're going to get SE status. I have side jobs that are SE (each have to be done as a separate thing on tax assessments, not that I've done one yet as I've only been doing it a short while) and have a lot of control over my hours and when I take them in one of my jobs and I still can not be self employed for that job.

I asked at the beginning of August, just before my other job made me redundant. When I called again after being made redundant I was still told that I'd most likely have to be employed for my job where I'm very higgly-de-piggledy with my hours and in a lot of control.

Call the self employment tax hotline. Ask to be put through to your local assessment team about self employed nannying. That team will be able to tell you whether or not your job will be classed as self employed. It's not just the hours and level of control involved, there are other aspects to it and only they will be able to tell you with 100% certainty.

Flip