Part time nanny - PAYE or self employed? (and why)

[jeansthatfit]

We have 2 dcs, 3+ years and 6 months.

We want a part time nanny to help us when my work hours increase soon - exact hours to be agreed, we can be a bit flexible - and have found someone who would also work part time for another family (independently of ours, it's not a nanny share).

How would we be best paying her? so far we've only really paid babysitter cash in hand. Is there a legal requirement to pay her in ine way or the other? fwiw the other family have apparently told her she should be self employed.

Help welcome.

They are an employee if:

you want them to turn up when YOU want them to, rather than when THEY want to.

you want to tell them what to do, how to do it.

you are telling them how much the pay is, rather than them telling you how much it will cost.

There is something about a pay amount, £109 a week I think is the point where National Insurance starts so of paying that or more then that can create a legal obligation for you to register as an employer.

Frequency of the work, is it just occasional, or is it really something the person is doing every week, every couple of weeks?

Those are some of the things I can think of which help indicate you are providing a job, rather than they are providing a service.

Best to assume they are an employee, then to try to prove they are not. There is a list of things to consider on the HMRC website but it isn't an exact science... HMRC has an enquiry line for employment status.

thanks - I've been self employed for years so kind of know the self employed side of things, and am in two minds myself as to whether or not she would count as self employed (she will be doing work for 'emergency' care nannying through an agency at weekends as well when she can, as well as working for 2 employers).

I'm mainly confused as to whether there is anything in the actual job itself which means it is described as PAYE or self employed automatically. In terms of my work, everyone who does it is self employed, no one is ever PAYE.

Hours would vary a bit, and we'd work out each week by mutual arrangement - i.e we have some flexibility as a family, and I am keen to have this particular person nannying as I like her a lot. We have agreed roughly how many hours a week we'd need her, but we can vary when those hours are. So it's not a case of her just turning up when she likes! but we can accommodate (and ask for) some flexibility.

To my mind, that does sound like self employed - the 'dictating hours' thing is a bit of a grey area anyway - a self employed builder or plumber turns up, hopefully, by mutual arrangement, not just when they like, iyswim.

In terms of telling her what to do and how to do it etc - I really don't know how you break that down for nannying. If I ask her to take ds to soft play but she chooses where and when to go, which category does that fall into? If I ask her to have ds play in the house on a particular day because he's got a bit of a cold, but she decides they will make crispie cakes and then read stories, what does that mean?

I've also done a bit of googling and there seem to be odd tax issues when a nanny works for two employers - something to do with distribution of tax free allowance - which is confusing and worrying me.

Any more thoughts welcome!

One more question, sorry - is it possible for a nanny to be PAYE in one job and self employed in another?

Sorry - that last post should read, is it possible for a nanny to be PAYE in one job and self employed in another at the same time?

It's unusual for a nanny to be self-employed - usually only maternity nannies, holiday nannies, emergency/ad-hoc ones are.

It's possible for a nanny to have one employed job, say Monday and Wednesday 9am-3pm, and then the rest of the week take emergency or ad-hoc bookings, night nannying etc as self-employed.

There is only a tax issue when the nanny works for two employers if they have been foolish enough to agree net pay - if you agree gross it isn't a problem.

Hopefully, one of the MN experts will come and tell you the exact reasons, but my recollection of these debates over the years, is that in most cases nannies have to be employed.

Have a look at the nannytax website and also check with HMRC.

In almost all cases nannies are employees. If you look on the HMRC website they have a guide. You can call them and ask.

You can be self employed and employed at the same time. If you got a Saturday job working in Tesco's you would be employed for that job, but continue to be self employed for your other job.

yes you can be employed and self employed - i am, but i do maternity/night/temp work and i chose when to work for self employed, but i am also employed as a nanny for families

you need to employ this lady you want, tbh im not sure why she would want to be se while working for you as means she would lose out on smp/holidays/sick pay etc

the only nannies i know who want to be se for perm jobs are those who fiddle their taxes

you would be liable for any tax not paid and possible £3k fine for tax evasion not the nanny

also always discuss a gross wage

Are they wanting to be self employed for this role or are you wanting them to be, plus why? If they are wanting it and can prove to HMRC that they really are running a business with several clients then HMRC may permit it.

You could call the status team and get advice from them with regard to the specific role they would have when doing work for you.

I'm both, I have two jobs, one very much like the one you are offering by the sounds of things and they are asan . I called the tax office a few weeks back and they are still insisting that iI won't get permission to be self employed for either of those positions, even the one where my hours will be changing regularly come September.

I am then self employed for ad hoc and babysitting work.