nanny share dilemma...

[HeadFairy]

We currently nanny share with another family, our nanny works 3 days with us and 2 days with them. The other family have asked if we don't mind the nanny having all our children (5 in total) one day a week for a few months (3) until their new childminder is able to start as the mother of the other family wants to increase her working days from 2 to 3. We've already met and agreed that it was fine for a couple of months as 2 of the children are at school all day, and the other three all have nursery sessions. It's tricky but managable for a short term.

The problem is they've broken down how we'd pay for it, but the amount they've suggested is significantly less than we currently pay her. I assume they've negotiated a different rate with her, that's their business. We pay what I think is a fair rate for our nanny's level of experience. The rate they're suggesting is really really low and I wouldn't expect her to care for our children for such a low amount. (BTW they broke it down so the figure they quoted is isn't our share, it's the total hourly rate, and it's still really low)

Do I mention it to them and say I'd like to pay the nanny more (does that make me sound utterly bonkers)? Do I think "oh goody, I can reduce my outgoings a bit" (I'm a bit uncomfortable with that to be honest), or do I just pay half our usual hourly rate, which will be more than the other family suggested?

Sorry this is a bit rambly, I hope it made sense.

You do not have a nanny share at the moment ... yours and theirs are two separate employments. As you are planning to arrange a nanny share for that one day for a period of time you need to sit down and calculate what it's going to cost you and then work out how to split it. I assume you only have two children and they have three and the childcare will be taking place at your home therefore you need to account for additional food, kitty and discuss how you split it (if the care is in your house you shouldn't go halves ... as it is going to inconvenience you more)
I think the amount you pay the nanny for that day should be more what you currently pay her as what sense does it make it for her to look after more children for less? ... she could as well decline their kind offer and stick just with just you and have an easier day with less children .... I think you need to lay the rules as it is your day, your house, and your children that they will be interfering with ...

Is that the case Lovely? I assumed nanny share was when two families shared a nanny though not necessarily on the same days... Happy to be corrected.

The idea was to alternate weeks at each house, though most of the time our nanny would only have one or two of the children (one in the morning as the two older would be at school, the two middles would be at nursery, then the youngest goes to nursery in the afternoon so it would just be the two middles, then she does the school run for all five - my ds goes to after school club on those days so he's collected much later so it's doable). Tea would be at alternate houses each week, so the cost of feeding would be spread between the two families (I don't mind if they have one extra child, he's only 18 months and eats a tiny amount).

I agree that we shouldnt' be paying her less to look after more children, it's crazy. Thanks for the advice, I think you're right that I need to be a bit more dominant. The mother of the other family emailed me with an intinerary of the days and I kind of feel that should be my shout.

So should I email her and say I will pay her x amount for our half, what you pay her is up to you, but we will be paying her x as we feel it's right.

You need to make it clear that the nanny is in your employment for that day (she has a contract with you for the specific three days you have her, yes?). Keep everything as it is now, but have the extra children at yours, and have them pay you extra for food etc, or the other mum will take over your day, and may never follow through with the childminder. You need to make it clear that you don't HAVE to agree to this, so it will be on your (and your nanny's) terms. Talk to your nanny about how she feels about having two extra children and all the extra school runs. Talk to her about how much extra money she'd be happy with for this. Make the other mum understand this is on your terms, not hers.

As you described the whole situation you should both agree on an X amount per hour for nanny's work and split it down the middle. You have to have control over it as it is your day. If you just pay your half and let the other family pay what they feel like the nanny may end up with less and feel let down. You also have to discuss what happens if child/children from one of the families get ill ... would you be happy for the nanny to look after their ill child and your child who is well?

You need to be clear that you employ the nanny for three days and they employ her for two days. This isn't a nanny share - a nanny share is when two families jointly employ a nanny to care for children from both families on various days.

So, your friend is actually asking you to agree to share your nanny on one of your days. You could do this by:

1. Continuing to employ the nanny for three days yourself, and agreeing with the nanny that she'll look after extra children on one day (in return for a higher salary on that day)
2. Changing the arrangements so that each family employs the nanny for two days and a nanny share contract applies on the remaining day
3. Change the while week to a nanny share arrangement

I have ordered the options in the order I would prefer them. The first option allows you to keep your nanny three days per week. So there is no risk that the other family can change things or dictate terms on your three days. You would probably have to host the children at your house every week though, as the nanny would be working for you. I don't know how you would set up payment from the other family to you to compensate for the increased nanny fees on that day (and the increased stress/mess in your home). It might get tricky as it would be income to you, which should probably be declared/taxed etc.

I would be wary of losing control of your three days by doing option 2 or 3. The other family may decide not to find other Childcare for that day, or your nanny might decide not to accept a three day contract with you in the future if she likes the nanny share set up. I would try to find a way to do this whilst keeping the nanny in your employment for the three days and introducing a temporary variation to her salary and duties for one day a week. As I said though, I've no idea how you legally then recoup the costs from the other family.

Good luck!

Has anyone spoken to the nanny about this? Even with the older children in school/nursery, isn't it going to be a lot of extra work for her (general responsibility, more school runs, having the 18mtho at home with her on a day when she's used to the children she looks after (yours) being in nursery/school)?

And are you happy with it? You have no obligation to this other family as, presumably, you have entirely separate contracts with her, pay her (and do payroll) indepedently (although obviously it is a neat arrangement as if the nanny didn't do the two days for this family, presumably she'd need to do it for the other family and, if she couldn't find such a job, may have to look for a full time job). Not only will your children get less attention on this day, but any nursery duties she does whilst they're at school/nursery will be reduced as the nanny will have the 18mth old to look after. Do the children know each other? How well do they get on? What happens if one of the other children or one of your children is ill? And what happens if the other family are late dropping the children off/collecting the children off at yours? If they were late dropping off, would the nanny have to wait for them before setting off on the school run (thus making your children late) or would she set off anyway?
In terms of pay, presumably you pay her her usual rate as you will continue as her employer on this day. Could the other family then give her a bonus? And would you want some payment from the other family?
Whilst it would be nice and convenient for the other family if the nanny - who they know - can pick up the gap whilst the other mother increases her day, it only brings complications and problems for you. What happens if the childminder can't start looking after the children for some reason in three months time (October half term strikes me as an unusual time to have availability to look after three children). And, if the other children do go to the childminder in three months, after that who is going to pick up the pieces if one of the other children is too ill to go to the childminder or the childminder is ill? If your nanny going to be the person they call?

I'd discuss with the nanny the amount of money she'd like, then the amount you think is fair and decide on an hourly rate. I'd then TELL the other family that this is what the nanny will be paid. They must pay half. It's completely unfair for you to have to pay more than them. It's not down to them to decide what to pay. You and the nanny are doing them a massive favour. Tell them what the pay will be, split it down the middle. They can like it or lump it! You sound like a lovely employer by the way.

you do sound a lovely employer to even be considering this/your nannies feelings

first check with your nanny that she even wants to have the other 3 for a day extra - she may not want to, esp if means having an 18mth all the time (at yours she gets a break/rest while your are at nursery/school)

if she does then have the other 3 children come to your as others have said, it is your day and if things change then may be harder to get 'control' back

no you arent in a nanny share, you are 2 separate famillies who have the same nanny but on different days

i would keep your payment the same but if you are happy to get the other family pay her a bonus/extra that day and ask nanny what she would like extra - tbh the other family should pay her almost a days wages anyway for the sheer hassle of a share that day, very different looking after 2/3 children to having 5 and lots of school runs/meals to sort out

whoops hit send, and also pay you something for the inconvenience/food etc and the fact you arent getting 100% of your nanny

Hiya, wow lots of questions... I'll try and run through them all.

We have spoken to the nanny, she's very happy to do it, it was actually her suggestion. She is super laid back and flexible (God love her!)

I don't know the agreement she has with the other family but she doesn't do that much in the way of other nursery duties (I bulk cook and she generally uses food I've prepared for my children's meals, we have a cleaner, I do all the laundry/make beds etc. The only thing we ask her to do is tidy up at the end of the day)

The children do all know each other, they've had play dates together and all get on very well. No worries there.

We haven't discussed what happens if one of the children get ill, I will raise it. In the back of my head I thought we'd just work that out when it happens... my mum is 15 mins away and available for childcare usually, but of course I can't guarantee she'll be there when they need her.

murtette sorry i dont' think I made it terribly clear, the arrangement would run from September to Christmas.

In the past the other family have only asked our nanny to look after their children for a couple of hours on one day when an emergency arose and they had nowhere else to go. I was actually at home that day and it worked ok, they all got on well and played nicely but the house was very noisy admittedly. The other children were really well behaved though, probably because they were in unfamilar territory. The mother was super grateful last time, and said any time we ever had a similar situation we were only to ask for a return favour. They are a really lovely family.

One of my biggest concerns though is how we'd manage the school run... Neither of us has a car big enough to take 5 car seats so she would have to do the school run on foot, which means a lot of walking for the kids, not the end of the world, there are worse things they can do, but we'd be heading in to winter towards the end of the arrangement so it might be grim weather.

Looks like I need to clarify a few things a bit more....

As you currently have two separate employments, and the other family want to share one of your days, I think it should be you that sets the wage for that day.

Usually nanny shares attract a higher wager - for example a nanny earning £10 an hour for one family might expect £12 an hour if it became a share. Why don't you decide a fair wage for the nanny share day and then split it 50-50 with the other family?