what's so off putting about employing a nanny with their own child??

[glitternanny]

I am stuck - really stuck.... maybe you kind MNers can help me understand...

I'm job hunting due to a reduction in hours with my current families and I have my own 18 month old son. He's been coming to work with me since he was 12 weeks old - I had a very short maternity leave partyly due to my commitment to my job and he is very very easy to look after, always has been.

I returned to work to one job I had and a new job where their youngest was just 3 months older than my boy - which was very challenging, they are now the best of friends.

I love my jobs, my charges love my son - him being with me just makes my day busier and in some ways harder but I am always the professional - I am very committed to doing the same job i would do without him with him there with me and more often than not I completely over compensate having him with my by ignoring him and leaving him to his own devices while doing my job.

My charges and my bosses (who often work from home) can back this up completely.

Also my son isn't with me for 1/2 the week (approximately) as his dad works shifts and when he's off my son stays with him.

I've never taken a drop in salary, I've rarely taken time off because of my boy and have his dad and grandparents/friends on standby if I need to.

SO WHY wont you mums consider someone like me?

I appreciate you are paying for your children to be looked after, but I am doing that - I'm still the nanny I am without him - I'm just busier when he's there, he's not with me all of the time, he's just part of the package.

OR mums want a salary reduction of 50% (my latest interview where the family totally loved me but want me for 1/2 my current rate even when he's only with me half the time I'm there) yes I'm lucky to have my boy there but this isn't a nannyshare, I am still working by your rules/requests/routine/preferences etc - I don't get to do my own thing like I would if I were a SAHM

I'm now trying to find childcare for my son so I can carry on working, which given that I'm leaving my house every morning at 6:20 and I'm not home until 6:30 (and that's only if my employers trains are on time etc) its really hard.

What can I do to make myself more employable? To get parents to at least meet me so I can get them to love me rather than seeing I come with my own child and am instantly dismissed.

I'm a great person, I am excellent at my job my charges love me and my bosses give me excellent references, I'm reliable committed and professional.

It might be worth re-thinking about how you talk about looking after DC whilst working. A few things in your posts would ring alarm bells for me - ie would I want a nanny who was willing to largely ignore their own child?

To be blunt, the rest of us cannot take our children to work, and have to pay for childcare. Why should you be any different? At least accept a drop in salary - everyone else does when they work and have children, because they have to pay for childcare! Offering your services for less, might make families more inclined to accept the sharing of them that you having your own child with you will involve. Families who otherwise might opt for nursery or childminder, might also then be able to afford you, and you might get work that way too.

Blogging: I don't.

I did it on purpose.

as a ground rule I never take my dd to first interviews. I woo the family, then suggest they call me back to meet her if they like me.

im so sad at the negative reviews towards nanny's with their own. As I said in my previous post, nanny's are not comparable to a cm or nursery just because they have their own, the work load is comparatively different- Also, we come to your home and take over from the get go, so you can get ready for work in peace, no sorting breakfast or getting them dressed...yet you'd rather drive to a cm and do a drop off to avoid having a perfectly capable nanny simply because they offer the benefit of a playmate.

I'll say this- no matter how good of a parent or childcare provider you are, you simply can never offer the SAME level of companionship a child can offer another child. I think im pretty good at my job, but watching my dd play with my charges, I can see how much fun the friendship provides.

Coming back to this thread, I think the biggest thing for me would be the ages of my DC and the age of your DS.

I have a 5 and a half year old, and a just turned one year old. And you have a one and a half year old.

I think that if you were to be our nanny (just a hypothetical as we have our own pregnant nanny), I would be concerned as to the activities you could do with my 5 year old during the school holidays.

I wouldn't be at all concerned about my 1 year old, as he and your DS would get on great, be playing with the same types of toys, be at the same babyproofing stage, enjoy the same kinds of games and toys and activities etc. And if we were very lucky, they may even nap at the same time.

I wouldn't be at all concerned about term time, as my view would be that as I only work three (long) days a week, and I am nearly always home for bathtime and bedtime and doing DS's homework which is only reading with him at this stage, you would only be having to spread yourself between three children between getting home from school and me getting home from work which is 2 1/2 hours. And if I wanted DS to do after school activities, I would try and arrange for these to happen either at school (so a later pick up time) or on my non working days.

My concern would be school holidays. The type of things that a 5 and a half year old would want to do, and the length of time that would take, varies to what two one year olds would be willing to do. I think my 5yo DS1 would be compromising massively, and that isn't why I employ a nanny.

Other issues (which we might be able to sort out fine) would be whether you would come into work when your child was sick, whether you would come into work when my DC were sick, whether you woudl be able to work any evenings (with notice) etc. I see that you have the equipment (double buggy, high chair, travel cot etc sorted.

I would also expect to pay you less than I would a nanny who desnt have the limitations, distractions and demands on her that her own chld would bring.

If I had school age children, and wanted to employ a nanny for whole days so that I knew that I had sick days and school holidays covered (DS's school has long holidays), then I might well think of employing you, as you sounds very willing to muck in round the house with things to do with the children and maybe return some parcels to the post office and that kind of thing (and I would just kiss you if you ever made me dinner), but the reduction in salary would be a deal breaker for me.

What it comes down to is: - if you are recruiting for a nice nanny job, full time hours, straightforward role etc and have loads of candidates to choose from, you will almost always go for a nanny without a child than the added complication of one with a child.

So, to make yourself more appealing and compensate for bringing your son with you, you either need to be cheaper, or you need to cover difficult to recruit for hours/roles.

You might be a complete bargain for someone with a child the same age as yours who wants to recruit a top nanny but can only offer 75% of market rates - if their choice is you WITH child or an inexperienced/newly qualified/poor English/former au pair they will go for you.

I'm not looking for a nanny right now, but I've considered a nanny who had a young child before. DS is an only so in some ways I'd see it as an advantage, especially if they were tiny - a baby or toddler that DS could play with and entertain. The only things that would worry me would be wear and tear on our home and 'toddlerproofing' - now that DS is older our home isn't toddlerproof and I'd worry about the responsibility of that. And for wear and tear - we have a white minimalist apartment... Great for us and our school-age DS, but.... I would expect to pay less - probably 25% or so less.

Well I was offered a nanny with own child when mine were 1 &3 the nannies's child was 18m (with no reduction in rate, it was through an agency) I went with another nanny purely because I wouldn't have fancied 3 under 5 and thought they wouldn't have got the tlc they needed.

Now they are at school and we have a nanny/housekeeper, she has a pre-school child who she sometimes brings to work, I think it's great for all of them to play together while she cooks, just like another sibling for them. Maybe look at a job with older dcs ?

Your refusal to consider a cut in salary is probably a key reason: 50% would be way too much and take you below minimum wage, but if you can't find a job then you are probably pricing your rates too highly for the market.

Some people might be worried that you will have another DC.

annoyingly the message I wrote earlier didnt post

let me make it clear I WILL consider and offer and expect to reduce my salary because of my son.

50% is an insult and takes me below minimum wage £175 for a 44 hour week!

I'm also a little surprised by some of the replies and negative feelings toward nwoc.

I agree with a PP about it getting harder the older your own dc gets. Especially when they get to school age.

My DS was 3 when I finally gave up on nannying and registered as a CM. At that point, we lived in a one bed, first floor flat with no outside space (apart from some of the best parks in london within 1 mile ).

As a CM, my earnings far exceed what I would have earned as a nanny on top pay. Infact, I earn more now, far away from London, than I ever would as a nanny in London.

I know it's not all about the money and sometimes it would be nice to only have one set of parents to work with but CMing is working very well for DS and I.

Also, a pp mentioned the friendship between dc and I just wanted to add that all of my mindees love my DS much more than they love me ...he is the star attraction!!

I wonder if you can call yourself something different or really play up the benefits? I do see how having a playmate would be really nice, and also if you were a trusted 'almost family member' type of nanny, that it would be lovely. But it's a difficult one to sell...

You do sound lovely though, and I hope you manage to show people why it's a good idea.

From my perspective:

I definitely fall into the thinking that nanny = sole attention, therefore nanny with child = diluted and conflicted attention.i feel that the job by definition demands that you put the needs of my child first, but if you do that, it's unfair on your own child, and what kind of person does that anyway? Not someone who I'd want caring for my child! So damned if you do, damned if you don't really...

You need to address this up front and have a really good way of showing this needn't be the case - I'm not sure how you'd do this though?

You are also fighting against the recruitment process and difficulty in finding a good nanny in a sea of people all looking for work.

Having read some applications and cvs of nannies who want to bring their child, I haven't warmed to them at all (just the few I've seen, not saying its a rule or anything!)

The applications either sound like someone who wants to look after their child And get paid for it, cheeky and unprofessional.... At best misguided and unrealistic! Or someone who I'd have to take a massive leap of faith with, that she didn't neglect my Ds in favour of her child. It's hard enough to wade through the 100s of cvs and try and find the very few amazing nannies in there, without adding another complication & reason for concern.

It's not 'an insult', it's a different way of thinking about it - and when negotiating it helps to have looked at things from the other pov.

The minimum wage is GROSS of tax - are you calculating your wage net of tax?

Also, that is your wage plus all your childcare costs paid for - many many people end up with a level below the living wage once their tax and chilcare costs are deducted!

I'm really not trying to undermine or diss nannies, I have lots of respect for nannies. It's a job with long hours and a big responsibility, and no great prospects of huge promotions and salary increases - but to get what you want, think how to negotiate within the market.

Many people employing a nanny will have their first or only child, and will be feeling nervous about the pfb fitting in with another child as they would have to with a sibling. It may be pfb, but it's the reality. Families with more kids will maybe find an extra child too much.

We interviewed 2 nannies woc.
1 had an older child of about 9 I think, who would need to be at our house after school, and she needed to do the school run. In our car. And offered no reduction in wages. The most she said about her own child was that 'it had never been a problem' and he 'was used to it'.

The other had a baby the same age, she said that as her child was with her 24/7 and she didn't anticpate having another child she welcomed the idea of looking after another alongside him because it would help him to grow up understanding sharing and being alongside other children, and for that reason she would not feel inclined to prioritise him over our child. She was studying child development and she had thought out some strategies for dealing with any potential jealousy about her child seeing her care for another toddler, and about how not to make our DS feel jealous because her child was with his Mummy and ours wasn't. She had all the solutions worked out about what to do in the event of her child's illness, or our child's illness, and she said that as she would be arriving at work in her car with her child's car seat, she would use her car for trips if we could provide a portable seat for her to use. She had reduced her daily rate by about 25%-30%.

Guess who we employed?

Good luck - we found our childcare through SimplyChildcare.

Ours had her baby and brought it - had worked for us for a few years before. Then another and then left when pregnant with the 3rd. So yes we have done it but it is very very hard and very different from a nanny without a child. Hers were younger so needed all the attention. It was like we were paying her to be allowed to bring up her child in a much nicer house and environment than she otherwise would have. The oldestof ours was at school (just) and the second at morning nursery but in school holidays and after school instead of 3/5/7 year old fun, it was those ages (ours) plus her 18 month old and baby - i.e most attention has to be on her younger two. Not her fault just how younger ones are.

In other words there are no advantages to her children being there. It feels like cuckoos in the nest - her family taking over your own home, sovereign territory. In a way it feels like a losing of power for the employer. Also her children bring germs into the home. Much much more mess (and ours was not great at sorting it out). Also with 5 rather than 3 it made it heard for her to drive them around. Just terribly hard all round even when she just brought the first one. Bringing 3 under 4 would have been even harder but it she did leave at that stage.

Glitternanny - I'm sorry you are having such a hard time finding another job/more hours. It is a tough market out there for all nannies at the moment (well, in the areas I know anyway).

If I was looking at hiring a nanny, a nanny with OC wouldn't be my first choice - for all the reasons others have mentioned. It is just more complicated (logistics/illness/less focus/less ability to do certain activities etc) so, yes, I would expect to pay less (which I know you are prepared to do!!) - but you need to make this very clear from the outset.

However, this would only make me re-think the option of a NWOC if money was an issue for me in the first place (if I wanted a nanny but couldn't quite afford one) as I would prefer that over a childminder - but if I could afford a nanny without OC at the going rate I'd do that.

One thing (and someone else mentioned it too) that I think you need to look at is how you are conveying how our child fits in. Some parents would want you to put their children first and have yours take a 'back seat' (and I think they probably wouldn't be great to work for!) but I suspect there are a lot of parents who would feel (as I would) that the way you have worded that seems a bit 'cold' and it would actually put me off you (if I didn't know you from MN!). It would make me feel like if you could do that to your son, you might not be very warm & affectionate with mine - that you'd be quite detached. On top of that, I wouldn't want a toddler consistently being put last so my kids were put first, that would not sit well with me. I would want you to do what a parent would do if all the children were theirs - attend to the one with the greater need at that time - mine or yours.

I'm not sure I have explained that terribly well!!

One big red flag for me was that the agency explained that I could be liable for any accidents or injuries suffered by the nanny's child while in our house and would need insurance to cover the cost of being sued by the nanny for that. To be honest, that was a risk I didn't fancy taking on, so we went for the nanny without child option.

I agree with Chippings point which was a bit like mine - I wanted and know it was right that the brand new baby and toddler of our long standing nanny wuld be dealt with first and in practice that means 90% of the time apart from when she was picking up our older ones from school and collecting them. No parent would consistently put their baby and toddler second to huge great 3/5/7 year olds. There was no actual neglect of ours but it was a very different set up from when she just looked after our 3. She stayed 10 years in all in part because we accommodated her 2 children but it was not ideal. We did not reduce her wages either although there might have been a couple of years without pay rises particularly when our youngest was at morning nursery in term time.

I considered a NWOC (the child was the same age as mine) but decided against it for the following reasons:

• her child was clearly a very easy child. My concern was that this would lead to my child seeming "difficult" or even "a pain" in comparison. (of course, if her child was a difficult child, this would be an even bigger problem...!)
• I may be wrong about this but I think a NWOC would be less likely to bond as closely with their charges as a nanny with no children.
• I was concerned that a NWOC would have a second child quite swiftly, meaning I would have to find new childcare. yes, I know this is not a legal reason not to employ someone, however...
• Part of my reason to employ a nanny is for some flexibility in hours (should i get stuck at work) and babysitting possibilities, this would be much more difficult for a NWOC.

It goes both ways. I offered my nanny job to two NWOC - & they declined me based on

1. she didn't think my kids would click with hers
2. she couldn't re-arrange some prior DC commitments.

I felt a bit under-appreciated - tbh - because I had volunteered a lot of flexibility/freedom to allow them to build a mutually beneficial work pattern. It is obviously trickier to work with DC - and needs compromise - but they shouldn't have really wasted my time if they hadn't fully thought it through. It put me off NWOC as demanding exceptional qualities from the candidate.

minipie the last three things in your list are not issues with a NWOC arrangement, but of employing a mother. Luckily for you your boss isn't as sexist as you are. What a horrible attitude. Please tell me you don't have daughters?

Outraged I wouldn't expect to be employed by my boss if my children impacted on my suitability for the job.

re my point 4 - If a candidate can't offer the flexibility I need - for any reason, whether it is children or a different reason, then she (or he) simply doesn't fit the job criteria. This is not sexism.

re my point 3 - Any nanny, unless past the menopause, could have a child. I am not saying I would not employ someone of child bearing age. But in this case, the NWOC specifically mentioned that her OH was keen for another child soon, and also that she had found it hard to do her previous job while pregnant because of SPD. So it seemed to me quite likely that if I hired her, she could quite soon be physically unable to do the job, followed by a period of leave.

Perhaps it is sexist for me to be put off by this - and as I say, I realise it's probably not legal, since employers are supposed to ignore all pregnancy related reasons when employing. But realistically I suspect most nanny employers would be similarly put off. I am trying to be honest and help the OP understand what might be worrying employers.

Your post is IMO unnecessarily attacking and rude. If you want to point out (what you believe to be) sexism, you can do so without being aggressive.

It's just common sense. We handled 2 maternity leaves with that nanny -she took about 4 - 6 weeks off which was accommodating of her too. However it was difficult. It is not like an office worker going on leave. You are severing a bond. you are disrupting the emotional life of a child. You are destroying routines and security.

How do you know a nanny having her own child (that she leaves at home) will impact on her ability to do the job? Surely having children impacts slightly on anyone's ability to do any job? What if your nanny is off sick and you need to take the day off to care for your children? Your ability to do the job is impacted, best resign!

're my point 4 - If a candidate can't offer the flexibility I need - for any reason, whether it is children or a different reason, then she (or he) simply doesn't fit the job criteria. This is not sexism.'

It is sexism to assume that someone with their own child couldn't offer flexibly, which is what you've done. What if her DH is a SAHD?

Your no. 3 was not about this specific nanny it was 'a' nwoc could have a second baby quickly, not 'she' might have another baby quickly.

I have not been aggressive, calling you a twat would be aggressive, saying you have displayed a horrible and prejudiced attitude is factual.

Although I will say that you haven't specified a female nanny, would you decline a male nanny on the same grounds? He may become a father again, couldn't be flexible, couldn't bond with your children if he had his own etc. if so, then you're not actually sexist, you're prejudiced against all parents!

What if your nanny is off sick and you need to take the day off to care for your children? Your ability to do the job is impacted, best resign!

In my job, I would be expected to find alternative childcare asap so I could come to work (in fact we are all members of an emergency childcare service precisely for this purpose) or failing that, respond to emails and calls from home while looking after my children.

I haven't assumed - her DP is not a SAHD and she needed to leave by a certain time.

Re no 3, it was a particular issue with this NWOC given what she said, but if I am honest it would be a concern with any employee with one young child.

No, horrible is not factual, it's an opinion.

I think it's weird to talk about your plans for other children in a job interview plus incapacitating aspects of your previous pregnancy. How on earth did that come up?