are there different rules for CMs and nannies? can someone be both?

[fasterthanthewind]

I'm going back to work soon (2 days), and with 3 DCs thought that a nanny was really the only option - too complicated otherwise.

However DS's old CM is back in business again, but rather quieter than she'd like, and I think she might be up for looking after our brood. She'd probably have the baby and another child during the day, and then just my 3 after school.

Before I ask her whether she fancies this (she's fantastic, but beyond terrible at paperwork etc. so wouldn't know what's allowed)

• would she be allowed to look after the children at both her house and mine?
• what are the rules about being an employee/self-employed - would she need to be an employee while she worked for us, but self-employed on the days she has other kids?
• is there anything I need to be aware of/worry about regarding insurance, tax etc.

Thank you!

Yes there are different rules.

A childminder is self-employed, they work from their own home (although I think they may be able to work from your home if there are special circumstances and they clear it with Ofsted), they must be registered with Ofsted and are inspected.

A nanny does not need to be registered with Ofsted, though can choose to be so that they can be paid with childcare vouchers. Nannies are only registered on the voluntary register and so don't have any rules/targets/inspections from Ofsted. Nannies will almost always need to be employees.

You could be both on different days, although knowing how crap Oftsed are, the chances of them not becoming confused and causing you/her immense hassle are almost nil.

Different rules, complications on insurance - two policies may be needed. Complications on employment status - is she working for you, or running a business, ot could be a bot of both.

So best that they decide to either be a childminder, caring for children at their [the childminders] home, or they be a nanny caring for children at the children's own home.

They could be a different thing on different days. May get complex though.

that's really helpful, thank you.
In lots of ways it would be much the best if she could just be a childminder, but work part of the time at our house (probably just the after school bit, and maybe not much of that).

Is this something Ofsted would need to know about/that would cause insurance nightmares?
Basically if it's going to be an admin headache then I won't even suggest it - life's complicated enough already! But it'd be lovely to have her in our lives again.

I suppose the risk is that a minded child (whose parents would have needed to give consent for them to be at your home) injured themselves badly. Your liability insurance may not cover it, as you would not have advised your insurer of the change in risk.

Are you really wanting this childminder to bring their own children, their minded children, plus your children all to your home?

If they were at your home as your nanny but also cared for children from 2 other families, then that will breach childcare legislation in England. To avoid that breach, your home would need to be registered as the childminders place of work. However the 2 hour rule may apply.

Hard to get head around without knowing all the facts involved.

Why do you want to complicate it, would having them as a childminder not be easier? No need for you to be their employer.

Is picking the children up from the childminders home the issue? If so, could childminder drop your children home once you are back home?

oh dear it does sound complicated, and prob not worth pursuing.

CM might have another baby during the day (till about 1pm) and then just my children after that. I don't mind where the baby is looked after - out of our house probably better, to be honest - but I'd like the big ones to come home after school, rather than going to her house. It's more peaceful for them etc. etc.

What is the 2 hour rule?

So how about this -

• she continues as a CM
• has my baby and others during the day
• after school 2 days/week just has my bunch and takes them to activities/brings them home. She wouldn't bring other kids to our house.

Still too complicated legally etc? Would insurance need to know? Would Ofsted need to know?

I would say the simplest thing to do would be for the childminder to have the baby from her house in the day, pick up the other children from school and return initially to her house, then go out for activities etc on the way to dropping them home. This would all be covered by her childminder insurance as her home would still be the base. She would not have to be your employee this way and you could just pay her as a standard childminder - probably whatever you pay for the baby x 3 for the after school hours.

One thing to bear in mind though is that she might not want to commit to only having your 3 children after school. Providing she doesn't have her own children under 8, then she is probably allowed 6 children. committing to only looking after 3 would halve her earning potential.....

If care is provided for under 2 hours then registration is not required.

I don't think it helps resolve anything innthis situation.

Childminder will be restricted to only having one baby in their care, so ages of the children are important. They are restricted in number of children of under school age and also number of children in total under age 8.

Consider how things change over time. The current baby may leave at 1pm now but would that always be the case?

Just caring for your children restricts her earnng potential. You are only wanting two days, so giving you 2 after school places and a baby place means that it may be difficult to fill the remaining days.

As Runoutofideas says, keeping her home as the base is the way to do it, dropping your children home.

You can do both......I do and have 2sets of insurance running. But I only nanny for one family in their home and childmind several children in my home.

You could speak to your childminder......she may say she doesn't want to be a nanny in your home if she has her own children too

am going to have to talk to her!
ages are 6 4 and 1, so no under-1s.

her kids are 20s downwards - youngest year 9 or 10! so not in the picture.

This has been REALLY helpful, thank you. Lots of things to think about. And you're all right, there's every reason to think this won't work well for her in any case, and that a nanny might be cheaper (for us), less stressful, and that she'd do better with a stableful of children.

(when she minded DS1 as a baby, he was her only charge - she's never been one to be 'full' - so who knows? might appeal. they loved each other dearly...)