Advice re holiday pay

[NutcrackerFairy]

I'm just wanting some advice or thoughts please from registered childminders regarding what you think of this situation.

I have a lovely childminder and my two children adore her.

We have a contract that states that the childminder has 14 days paid time off annually.

As my children only go to her for two days a week I assumed that was pro rata - so she has 14 days off a year paid and all her clients pay a percentage of that. So for us it would be we pay her for around 6 days a year for her days off... nearly half of what a fulltime mindee would.

As our childminder works with her sister [also a registered childminder] this has always worked well, in that if one is on holidays the other is there to continue taking care of the children.

So we have usually paid her for 2 weeks at Christmas and New Year [4 days of fees for us]. And usually a couple of bank holidays as well. So around 6 days paid time off in total.

And additionally also for our own holiday time taken and children's days off sick of course.

However this year, both sisters have taken holidays at the same time and have just informed me they will be off again, together, in the August holidays.

When I queried holidays that we pay fees for, our childminder just stated that it was 14 days paid holiday.

Now for a full time child [5 days per week] this works out at 2 weeks paid holiday plus 4 days extra for I presume additional bank holidays. Fine.

But for us, with children being minded 2 days per week, 14 days holiday works out at us paying her the equivalent of 7 weeks holiday!
And we end up paying more in total paid time off too as full time mindees get a discount on their fees overall.

So, thanks if you are still with me. Obviously I will have to discuss the contract and situation with my childminder but I am just wondering if I am missing something here. I don't want to rip off or upset my lovely childminder and I am happy to pay what is fair. But I just feel this is unfair.

What do other childminders think?

What does your contract say exactly? Go by that. If it specifically says 14 days of paid holiday a year that is unfortunately what you will have to pay.

It should be pro rata..otherwise you are paying her 7 weeks off ! its not fair on you.

It does seem unfair to me and would have thought it would be pro rata but unfortunately it really does depend on what your contract says.

A pro rata entitlement of two weeks seems very low, most people get five weeks or more, plus eight days public holidays.

Redbindy, Childminders are self employed not employees so they are not entitled to any paid holidays but some childminders do charge for holiday and this will be set out in their terms and conditions.

Okay, interesting. There are some mixed responses here...

The contract [it is the official ncma form of contract] does state 14 days paid time off a year.

But I guess I presumed that meant that she has 14 days paid time off a year in total, not that every mindee she has has to pay her 14 days off a year!

See I have two contracts, one for each of my children.

And each contract states 14 days paid time off per year...

So going strictly by the terms of the two contracts, does that mean I actually owe 28 days paid time off a year? Or 14 weeks?

Omg how confusing! I would have thought it meant 14 days pro rata. For a self employed person to ask for 7 weeks paid holiday is a joke IMO. If this is what she excepts I'd look for a new childminder. You've then got to book your own holidays, which could potentially mean your paying for approx 12+ weeks a year when you either don't need childcare, or childcare not available. Crazy!
I'd discuss this with her. I'm pretty sure 7 weeks paid holiday is not standard practise for a childminder.
I'm sure there's been a mix up, and she actually means pro rata. Surely!!!???

Think you will have to discuss it with her, contract sounds unclear to me. If its a deal breaker for you then your only option may be to give notice and she may not want it to come to that so I would say open discussion is best way forward here.
Good luck, let us know what happens.

If your contract for your child says 14 days paid then you can't assume that it actually means 14 days paid for a full time child so it is 2/5 x 14 i.e. 5.6 days for your child.

And if you have two contracts that say you need to pay 14 days at £X per day then of course you need to pay 2 x 14 x £X in total.

But it sounds like there is some confusion and the contract doesn't reflect what happens in practice. Let's say you pay £35 per day per child, so in a normal week you pay £140. What happens when you "pay her two weeks over Christmas" - do you pay her for 10 days i.e. £700? Or do you pay her £280?

If it is the latter then the written contract needs changing to reflect reality.

MrAnchovy when I pay the two weeks over Christmas I pay £280 not £700 [to use your example].

As is the same if our family takes a week's holiday. We pay her her normal 2 days a week for 2 children - so £140. Not the full worth of the week iyswim, so not £350.

I think you're right and we need to discuss the terms of the contract really.

At the moment I am quite unclear as to my obligations and the expectations childminder might have of me.

Thanks for all your help by the way!

If her policies said 14 days and contract said nothing, then I might assume it was pro rata, but your individual contract for your child says 14 days, so I would assume it's 14 days. Ask for a contract review if you are due one.

Which days of the week does she look after your children and does the 14 days stated on the contract include bank holidays or are they on top? It is fairly common for childminders to charge for 4 weeks paid leave plus bank holidays. So for example if your days happen to be Monday and Tuesday then by my calculation in 2013 there would be 5 bank holidays that fall on those days plus 8 days leave making a total of 13 days, not far off what is on your contract.

mamamaisie I presume the 14 days include bank holidays...?

The children went to her one day a week last year and the contract stated 14 days paid holiday a year then as well.

However, we actually paid her about 5 days time off - 2 days for Christmas & New Year weeks and a couple of days for public holidays.
Plus our own holiday time off as well of course on top of her paid time off.

It's not been an issue before as the sisters have coordinated their holiday time between them and so we have not had to query the paid time off in any detail.

In fact, when we started with her I remember her saying that this was her standard contract [the 14 days paid] but as there were two childminders it didn't really apply per se....

Hence the confusion now really...