Self employed nanny

[Droflove]

Hi, I have interviewed someone for a 3 day a week nanny role and she has said that she is self employed. It truly does seem that she is so I'm not looking for a discussion on the rules, regulations and classification of self employed Nannys. But I am wondering if her pay needs to reflect that she is paying her own tax etc. for example, I was planning to pay a nanny approximately £10 net which I would expect to be approximately £12 gross. Should she be paid the £12?

Also, she is expecting paid holidays, national holidays, probably sick days too... and all those benefits, I am also self employed and don't get such things (I only get paid days I work). Is this the norm for a self employed nanny?

Thanks in advance.

I know you said you didn't want a discussion but its the job not the person that is self employed. It's perfectly possible she is self employed in her other role(s) but unless she is free to chose her own hours, is responsible for providing all her own equipment (toys etc?) and us free to send a replacement nanny of her choice if she feels like not turning up then she should be employed.

It's you as the employer who would be liable for the unpaid tax and national insurance not her.

The fact she is expecting paid holidays and sick pay too would not stand you in good stead with HMRC. Self employed people don't get these things.

The fact you are deciding the pay rate is not a great indicator either. Has she not told you how much she expects for the service she is providing?

I would certainly expect the payrate to be higher than that offered to an employee, as someone self employed has to take into account not getting paid holiday, sick pay, redundancy pay.

As you are self employed yourself, comsider how you charge your clients. If the nanny is genuinely self employed and they are providing a service to you and a number of other clients, would you not expect them to have terms of business, invoices, that sort of thing?

No reason why someone can't be self employed for some work and employed for other work.

Are you offering a job or looking for a service? If you need someone to come 3 days a week, fixed hours, fixed days, doing whatever you tell them to do, do you not feel that is a job, not them providing you with a service?

Also 100% fine of tax and Nic you should have paid (in addition to paying this tax over) plus a criminal record if you get it wrong would put me off but if you don't want to discuss it, that is your issue,

Hmrc are focussed on this, it's a grey area and there are a lot of issues with your scenario that say employed. YOU are the one who has more to lose than the nanny.

Employment status relates to the job and not the individual, it's very very unlikely she can be self employed, its very easy to register as self employed.

Ring HMRC if you're unsure and they will advise you, but if you are setting her hours, duties and paying holiday and sick pay she will be an employee.

To answer your question - yes, a self employed person would be paid the higher rate as they then pay their own tax and national insurance from that money.

BUT I have to echo what everyone else has said. The job does not sound like she can be self employed - especially with holiday pay, sick pay etc You need to ring HMRC for advise and if by some tiny chance they say yes, get it in WRITING. The employer is the one that will be chased up and fined if caught out.

HMRC Status Customer Service Team contact details - do call them, discuss about if the 'job' you have on offer is considered to be a job.

If the person was really self employed I would be expecting them to charge you quiet a lot... probably £13-£14 an hour, possibly expressed as a day rate. They will be able to take holiday whenever they like, decide not to turn up (though then you may not hire them again) and really call the shots.

There is I think one type of Work Permit (so look at UKBA immigration rules) which could result in a self employed child care provider. Think it is for those from Bulgaria or Romania who are entering via the route which needs the BR1 form completing. However, if they were able to complete that and get the work permit, then why would they be asking for paid holiday, sick pay?
If they have a work permit, take copies of everything you can, plus call HMRC for advice, so you can prove to HMRC at a future date that you did as much you could to determine that the person could do the job you are offering on a self employed basis.

So how much is she expecting to be paid? Is it say £13-£14 an hour, maybe more... or is she selling herself for less, possibly even less than an employee might get? Up to her how she runs her business but you would not expect it to be less than what an employee would be paid in the area.

Her rate is £12/hr. my confusion was around her wanting to get paid holidays as I felt that is not a self-employed situation. She is highly qualified, excellent references, came across very well and I like her. Will discuss further with her to clarify.

You would be right that its not a SE situation. She seems to want all the benefits of employment but still do her own tax return. I would be suspicious tbh. I don't see why people would want to do that if the employer is prepared to operate PAYE.

Hi Droflove

I work for one family under PAYE for two days per week and they employ me as they need me on set days each week, I get paid holiday for this job. I also have my own business on a self employed basis, so for someone wanting temporary, ad hoc, short term childcare I might be available. For this I charge a higher rate to allow for the tax and class 4 insurance I pay.
It is not difficult to do this, maybe the nanny is confused, and thinks she needs to be one or the other.
If she is excellent for you, should be easy to sort out.

as others have said it sounds like you are employing her, you dictate the days/hours you need

if she is expecting paid holidays/smp/ssp then she is employed

i am a self employed nanny but thats as i do a lot of maternity work and i chose the days/hours that i want to work and if i need a day off within the booking then i tell the parents when we discuss my terms