Are nanny wages dropping?

[nannynick]

On Saturday, mumsnetter DontmindifIdo posted in another section of mumsnet:
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In fact, that's one thing that's got cheaper since the recession as well - nanny wages have fallen in large parts of the south east because rich families are less likely to have a full time nanny when there's a SAHM, so there's less demand for nannies at the top end and the wages have been pushed down - I know that some are earning more like £8 per hour (so costing the parents only £10 per hour), and are beginning for the first time to see they would earn more as childminders (for which there's a shortage in the part of Kent I live in, hense them getting away with no sibling discounts).

I hadn't realised this either until I got chatting to some nannies at a toddler group about their struggle to find full time jobs that paid a decent wage, and then started doing a bit of research, I still think of nanny as the "posh" childcare option, not something that would be cheaper for 2 preschool DC, and certainly if you had 3 then it would be considerably cheaper.
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Is this unique to Kent or have you found this happening in other parts of the UK as well?

Outside of a city, is the average salary nearer £8 gross, than £10 gross, or is it still going to vary quite a bit between say £8 gross and £12 gross?

I live in the midlands. I have been keeping an eye on the job market for a while (though only local to me) and regularly see adverts which go along the lines of "Nanny/childminder/live out au pair required to work in employers home" offering £5 ph. Some are more in the region of £6 - 8 ph. Have seen a few offering £4 ph. One particular job was offering £90 for 25 hr week!!! ("would suit student" apparently). Most of the ads don't state whether net or gross. Mostly on gumtree and suchlike. I currently earn about £8 net (qualified nanny housekeeper).

I'm in herts and some agencies are offering £ 8 - £10 gross per hour.

I was on that wage 14 years ago! In my current job, I am on almost £17 gross per hour which I know is high even for a nanny with over 20 years experience

There are definitely more nannies than there are jobs at the moment.

The going rate here (West London) is still £10ph net (everyone is still talking in net, even those who have a gross contract), but it was £10ph net 5 years ago, so I suppose comparably it is cheaper than it was.

I also think the range is now £8-£10, rather than £10-£12 like it was a few years ago.

There are more nanny shares and none of the nannies I know are earning above £10ph net for these jobs whereas shares used to be slightly better paid. I also think nannies are being asked to do more than before. I know live-out nannies who now have a weekly babysit included in their hours/wage. There are more part-time jobs and jobs with shorter hours than there were before.

Having said that, I do know a few nannies who are paid £10ph net full time and have only school-age children with free time during the day (and one of those also has a parent at home full time!) so those sorts of jobs are still out there.

Childminders in this area are quite expensive and it's an area with a lot of big families so for many people a nanny does still work out cheaper.

It will be interesting to see how the relocation of the BBC effects jobs in this area.

There are still jobs in my area (kent) that pay £12.50/13 gross so about £10nett but def fewer then 2years

but are also those that are happy to pay £10nett and have no children 9-so same as what outraged said

There are def more younger nannies happy to accept less and this makes it harder for us 'cough' older nannies

1. I can't afford a pay cut as have bills etc

2. don't see why I should earn the same as someone in late 20's as I've Over 10yrs more experience then them

3. I realise I am at the top of the market in salary in my area so unlikely to get paid much more - and esp as of 2)

We pay our nanny 11.20/hour gross and she has loads of experience. We live in Kent, inside M25, and have two children, One of whom is in full time school. I think she is paid towards the top end.

Loads of the 'nanny/au pair/childminder' positions paying £5 an hour around here. Very few full time positions too and many many 'self employed part time' positions.

I'm in Brighton.

forgot to add, the wage has gone down even from when I started less than 2 years ago down here.

Im in Kent nd have seen a definite stampede trend towards au pairs for school age children, mostly driven by fact you can get qualified graduate teachers with teaching experience and willing to do housework for £100 a week. Even the very snobby families who have always had nannies are switching and it must affect rates for nannies hugely.

My nanny does stuff that I rate very highly and wouldn't expect an au pair to do (eg she is amazing with regard to homework, guides, encourages, doesn't give them the answers), and its this kind of stuff that I value really highly. I think nannies need to really differentiate themselves and their offering by focusing on (and prmoting) what skills they bring after the baby stage to justify the pay differential, as otherwise it will continue to drop down. There is a definite need for a new marketing process because 'reliable, quality, and experience with babies' only goes so far when the pay difference vs au pairs is so huge.

Eg Focus on establishing trust over many years, quote the rowntree stuff about building close bonds with caregivers
Talk about relationship with families, how you still visit kids, love the fact they are close by and you can watch them grow
Talk about building up strong relationships with GPs and schools so you can act genuinely as th parents representative when parents need you to.
Talk about watching charges in school plays and feeling proud that you have helped them develop some of their skills
Talk about the transition to school and how tough that can be even for confident kids
Talk about the early years settings in UK schools, how it works, and how you extend this into child-led play after school
Focus on need for children to process all the stuff they've picked up at school (both classroom and social) and how you use the downtime with them to go through tis.
Talk about how as the kids grow older you start handing responsibility to them in terms of helping to prepare meals, starting to choose foods for themselves in supermarket etc, learning how to eat healthily and so on.

Lots of nannies do all this standing on their heads. Not many know how to promote that they do all this. Crack that one and you keep the rates up.

Here in SW London there seem to be more nannies than jobs
Friends who nanny have had trouble finding full time work

I'm in London and pay our experienced nanny about £15 gross which I think is about £11.50 net. She has been with us for 4 years and started on £10 net. She finishes with us next month and can't find an equivalent wage, people offering £9 net or £10 net with tax dodges. TBH we can't afford the high end nanny wage anymore, our salaries have been frizen for 4 years, bonuses are dead etc. We will therefore be getting an au pair. I think lots of families are in our position.

I'm in the South West and nanny wages have definitely dropped. A few years ago £8-10 nett was the norm. Now a lot of ads say £7-9 gross. There are definitely more nannies than jobs.

The main draw back of an au pair relative to a nanny is they can rarely keep all the ducks in a row all the time, the way a good nanny can.

They are just not as organised and don't ANTICIPATE things they way a nanny would - generally speaking. It can feel like coming home to a second job, looking around seeing things half done or not done or in some cases done wrong. Au pairs are young and inexperienced and this is often inevitable but it's exhausting managing them at times nonetheless.

If I were competing in a market as a nanny where au pair recruitment was becoming increasingly common it's this I would be thinking about how to play on (in a non-chippy way.) I would also consider being very flexible about household duties.

Many families who host an au pair would prefer an after school nanny and WOULD pay nanny rates. There just aren't enough of them to go round.

Plus there's the continuity of care for the children perspective - not all children can cope well with a change of carer every six to nine months which is the time frame that many APs want. And the settling in process for an au pair is very time consuming for the parents.

Some people will never be able to afford £10-13+ p/h gross. This is a fact as much as they might like to have a nanny. Or they need the flexibility of an au pair. But for other families where the case is more borderline, I'd also emphasize this point. The low 'headline' rates of the APs may in some cases be a false economy.

I mean - we have an au pair largely for the purposes of the schedule issue. But I have considered very seriously finding another after school only nanny and figuring out how to make it work.

So rates in some areas are dropping but some parents are still paying/are prepared to pay the higher cost of a nanny over other forms of care. Is that a reasonable conclusion?

nick I think that experienced nannies who have worked for a family for a long time (2+ years or so) will not see their salaries drop. This is because I believe that a family who see first hand what a difference an excellent nanny (as opposed to anm alright nanny who does the basics, but not a lot more) can make will continue to pay their nanny a higher end salary with bonuses etc for as long as they can afford to.

To me, paying what may be above the going rate in a dropping market is worth it, as I am happy with the service I am getting, want continuity of care for my children, and really don't want to go through the whole recruitment/trial period process.

It becomes more noticeable to nannies and to families who are looking to recruit or replace a nanny.

I'm looking at au pair profiles for next September when our current au pair is due to leave. I've noticed I've been getting some British nationality applicants in amongst the overseas applicants (and some with some childcare experience but probably not enough to compete against more qualified/experienced nannies). We're in London so it's probably an attractive location for someone looking to move from another part of the country. However, it must also be a sign of the (economic) times we are in.

MGM: That was how I got into nannying, by 'au pairing' for a British family in the UK a few years back. It was an accident really, but when I thought about it it made sense from a work experience POV.

I think there are fewer mothers help jobs now so would-be nannies are going in as au pairs and working their way up.

Nanny salaries are dropping - the nannytax wages survey showed they were and it tends to be higher-paying jobs that use them as a payroll option anyway so it's a reasonable extrapolation.

It's about £8-£10 net round me, and wages have been more or less static for 3-4 years.