what do I need to know/consider about a nanny share?

[HeadFairy]

Our current nanny has been with us 3 days a week for the past 18 months. The other two days a week she's worked for another family close by - I don't know them, but they are friends of a neighbour, however our children have played together on play dates. The other family have asked if we could nanny share one day a week from September.

My ds will be starting Yr1 in Sept, their older ds will be starting reception. My dd will be in nursery 9-12am on the day we'd be nanny sharing. So would our nanny's dd (she is the same age as my dd and comes to work with her). The other family's younger son is 3 and will be at home all day.

So our nanny will have just one child from 9-12. Then pick up the 2 girls. At 3pm she'd pick up the other family's older boy and at 4 she'd collect my ds from his football practice (after school activity). From 4pm until about 5.45 she'd have 5 children including her own.

I want to arrange a meet up with the other family just to say hello and have a chat. What do I need to consider/talk about?

The children all get on really well. Our nanny's dd obviously knows all of them well. My dcs have played a couple of times with the other children and seem to get on really well.

One week we'd do it in our house, one week we'd do it in the other family's house. They have a 7 seater car they'd let our nanny use and we have enough car seats between us.

What else should I consider?

I think you can't have children from 3 other families all on the same day ie yours - hers - and other children

This would make her a cm - so if she does a share with you and another family then can't have her own child with her

So I don't think this would work

Oh really? Gosh, I had no idea that was the case.

What would happen if we did do it then? Is she still considered a childminder if she's caring for the children in our home? Does this affect her employment status, would she then be considered self employed?

I don't think we have ever been able to establish the full leagalities as the legislation was not designed for a situation where the childcare providers child is being cared for. Legislation refers to Family A, Family B.

Would anyone know or care? Perhaps check with insurers, would they still provide nannies PL insurance in this situation.

Costs - if nanny is solely caring for the 3 year old, how do you allocate that cost wise. They are on call for other children and would have all if school/nursery was closed.

We were thinking that we'd take her daily rate, add a bit more and then halve it between the two families... because yes, while my children are at school/nursery she would be our responsible adult if one of the children were ill/hurt at school.

During holidays is another one I've not thought of (doh! )
As it's only one day a week I could probably get my mum to take our two so our nanny hasn't got 5 children for the day.

They are providing the car... I presume just for the overlap day. So who provides the insurance? The insurance cost could be quite high, depending on the usual insurance factors.

Consider what happens if your family, the other family, or the nanny wants to take that day of the week as holiday.

Consider how payroll will work, will the other family have a separate paye scheme?

Think about how YOU benefit from this share arrangement. 5 children at one house... Will it be your home that gets that mess, or their home?

I can not see how you benefit from this. Possibly a little lower cost but its only one day a week and there is added inconvenience. Is it worth it?

I'm with Nick on struggling to see what's in it for you? A slight saving, but so much more hassle/stress/organisation. If I were you I'd just tell the other family that you don't want to share!

I have a couple of friends who do a nanny share plus have their own child. They're both Ofsted registered and insured and it's all been ok so far (nearly 8 years for one of them), but neither of them have put their own child down on the paperwork. I don't know what would happen if someone reported it to Ofsted. My friend and the families she works for (3 different families, but on different days) are of the view that what she does with her own child is none of Ofsted's business.

I'd be inclined to give it go and see what happens. Your nanny may be asking for this because she's worried the other family may look elsewhere is she can't accommodate there childcare needs. If the nanny wants to do this and thinks she's capable of doing it well, it would be nice of you to allow her to try. I wouldn't be concerned about what your getting from it, some things we do to help others out, not because we directly benefit. You may well benefit from a happy nanny. The alternative may be, you say no, she loses her other job, and she'd have to leave you to find something different entirely. Who knows..... All the details can be discussed and sorted, I don't see anything unworkable about the situation. I'd just declare the share between the two families, don't mention her child. If it all works well, who actually cares. Maybe meet with other family and nanny to discuss. It's in all of your interests to make sure all three parties are happy. Good luck xx

Thanks for giving me some things to consider NannyNick.. all really helpful.

I will definitely ask them about their car insurance.. Likewise the holiday thing.

What do I get out of it? Well, I thik as Seb says our nanny is keen to keep the other family on because I'm aware that it's difficult to find work for just Tuesdays and Wednesdays (my days off) and I've always felt a happy nanny = happy kids. Plus the children really get on so it'll be nice for them.

If we can work out a way that doesn't put us at a disadvantage I'm quite happy to give it a go. We would alternate weeks at each other's houses, one week at ours, the next at theirs.

I wonder if a trial of say 6 months is the way to go forward.

Umm, payroll. Yes, I'm not sure about that one. We split her tax free allowance 3/5:2/5 at the moment as that's the split of the week between us. Dh has much more experience at this side of things as he does this sort of thing at work so I'm going to see what he thinks.

I'd start with a trial of a month or something. 6 months is a long time if you realise 2 weeks in that it doesn't work!

What will she do on her day with all 5 in school holidays?

As well as school holidays you need to consider your own holidays. Either you have back up cover for when nanny is on holiday, or all 3 families take holiday at the same time.

We had a nanny share which was less involved (2 families, 2 children, 1 nanny). Nanny selected 2 weeks a year and each employer family selected one week. The children were very young and apart from Christmas we were all keen not to go away in school holidays so that worked for us.

The other advantage for me of a nanny is that she looks after the children if they are too ill for school. You need to be ready for the other children to infect your DCs with whatever germs they get. I always considered myself quite robust about this and of course once the DCs are at school or nursery they will come into contact with plenty of germs. It was chickenpox that worried me, as DS2 didn't get that till he was 7 years old.

My compliments to your DH. I find a payroll company for tax and NI when there is more than one employer is money well spent!

my friend is ofsted registered and when she said to mm about doing a share with 2 families and taking her child with her, she was told no and that mm wouldnt insure her as 3 families

tbh as its for one day, as nannynick says its a lot of hassle and having 5 kids at yours is a lot (for holidays)

It's one day a week so for holidays (the first one up would be Autumn half term) for that day I'd get my mum to have my two so that wouldn't be a problem. Dh always takes Christmas and NY off so that could be sorted. I wouldn't want our nanny to have 5 children all day on her own. Despite her enthusiasm I think it would be too much. We did have all five in the house last week and it was a lot with me there too.

Why would your mum need to care for your children... that would mean your nanny is working that day solely for the other family.

Happy nanny = happy kids - I do agree but she is YOUR nanny, so should you be letting her work a day you have her, for someone else and you find alternative childcare?

Are you using childcare vouchers/tax credits? Is the possible lack of insurance going to be an issue, thus making this a non-starter?

Why do you have a nanny, rather than use another form of childcare?
You have told us about part of the day but not the time before 9am, or after 5.45pm... what happens during the rest of the time, are you needing a nanny due to an early start time for example?

As a nanny I start at 12 noon some days, as the youngest child I care for goes to morning nursery. Depending on what you need in the early morning with regard to childcare, your nanny may not be needed by you at all during the morning during term time, or they may be doing housework duties at your home. If they have another child in tow, would you then get the housework duties?

Could the other families son go to nursery that morning as well? He's 3, so would qualify for some education funding.

Not using childcare vouchers etc...

Yes, we have a nanny because I work shift hours and due to dh's long commute home he doesn't get home until 7pm. We have thought long and hard about other forms of childcare. For example I left home this morning at 6.15 am. Dh left at 7.30 as soon as our nanny got in. The kids just about get up around 7.15-7.30. We could probably find a child minder who would start that early, but I don't do that shift every day. Sometimes I start much later, and consequently our nanny starts later. One of the reasons I want to keep her happy is because she's very understanding about my shifts and is really flexible. Tomorrow I don't start work until 11am so I'll do the school run and she will start at 9am.

We also felt it wasn't fair on our kids to be dragging them out of bed at 6.30am to get dressed and go to the childminder and then they'd only get picked up by dh at 7pm. We also couldnt' find a childminder who would do the run to ds's school (for some reason there are very few if any childminders who live near ds's school). All in all it added up that a nanny was better for all.

It's only until Sept 2014 when dd starts school full time, then we'll only need after school care.

You are right about the thing with my parents though NannyNick. Bascially I think we'd have to come to an agreement on those days - seeing as its only one day - that we don't pay her that day, the other family pay the full day's pay on that day. And vice versa if the tables are turned.

So dragging your kids to the other families home in the morning is also not going to work. So you would want the nanny to be based at your home that day... doing something like 7.15am-7.15pm.

Would be nice to find a way this could work but you and the other family probably both want a nanny due to wanting the care at your home. One of you will have to not have that on this day of the week. Maybe it could be alternated but would that create more hassle... you/dh remembering if the children need to be dressed and taken elsewhere.

Would you only need after school care come Sept 2014... you currently need childcare from around 7.30am, so would that change?

Starting school is a whole other issue, as you can not be certain these days to get a place at the local school. You may end up with two children in different infant schools. Then when the move to junior school happens, you may not get a place in the local junior school - it's happened to some families in my area... they did not get the local junior school at Y3 entry as other villages are closer to the school, so only those with siblings got a priority over being closer in distance.
This may not be a problem for you if the school is big enough and if the school is infant and junior combined. However if catchment changes, if entry criteria changes, then could be certain that your DD would get a place at the same school your son attends? May be a while off but it's something to keep in mind.

With the share, what happens come Sept 2014... would it continue? Would you still have this particular nanny, as her own daughter may not get a place at the same school.

So the share arrangement may only be for a year or so. It may work... you would need to try it and see what happens. Could you do a dummy run at all, such as having the children over on a playdate that day of the week?

The childcare act 2006 does quite clearly say that as of 3 families registration on the appropriate register is required. However the act only applies to care for more than 2 hours per day.

The exemption to register is where children from 2 families are cared for at the home of one of the children. There are clearly 3 families involved here but the length of time may be relevant.

Is the fact that it's her own child not relevant? Does it not mean 3 paying families?

(ii)a child or children for particular parents (?the first parents?) and, in addition, for a child or children for different parents (?the second parents?), wholly or mainly in the home of the first parents or the second parents or in both homes;

Pay is not mentioned. The providers own child/children are not mentioned.

So yes it may be a breach, or it may not. Wonder if the regulator has ever taken any action, anyone been in this situation and had a visit from the regulator?

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/979/made - The Childcare (Exemptions from registration) Order 2008.

We would only have to in theory take the children to their house a maximum of two days a month, but even that's unlikely because my usual shift start time is much later. I normally do the school run and our nanny starts at 9am. It's only occasionally I have to leave early like this morning.

Dd's school is primary so no woes about moving to junior school. Yes, dd may well not get in. I can't really do anything about that except keep my fingers crossed.

We would probably not continue the arrangement once dd starts school. Our nanny is Polish and would like to go back to Poland in 2014 so she can get her dd in to a school over there. We've always known this was her intention.

I'll have a read of that link NannyNick, thanks for all the info. We've got lots to think about!