Would this be an aceptable vaccancy for a nanny?

[lifeishunkydory]

We live in the North West. I am looking for a nanny for three of my children, two are at school full time and the other is at nursery for 5 half days a week. I work four days a week and these can be spread over mon-sun, however we would only require 4 days a week over mon-fri but the one day off may be different every week.
The hours would be 7.30-18.00, however the nanny would be free between 09.00 and 11.45 until september and then during the day after then, when all three are in full time school.
I have seen posts on here stating there is a lack of jobs around but would these hours be acceptable and how much would I expect to pay in my area?
Does anyone currently have a nanny who has so much free time during the day and how does this work?

I thought I probably would have to pay for those hours but wasn't sure if the overall hourly rate would drop if they had a long period of time when they had no direct responsibility for the children. I don't really have much that I would want/like the nanny to to in that time, maybe just make sure the children's tea is ready, however I am not specifically looking for someone who can cook, I am happy to leave all the prep done so they just "throw" it together. What is more inportant to me is that they fit in with our family values etc.

Will she be paid full-time or only for mornings and after-school?

For me personally that would be my dream job (I'm a Nanny looking for a new pos. in case you might be interested).
Always good to have some free time during the day to take on other things and/ or have some quiet 'cleaning up the mess'- time, preparing everything for when the kids come back, planning activities etc. there's so much to do.

A fellow Nanny friend of mine works similar hours, she's paid full-time however only helps with the kids in the morning and after-school care and does some basic cleaning up, planning/ preparing, grocery shopping, post office and things like that whilst the kids are at school and can enjoy some free time as long as she's done her bit of work. She then works quite late in the night which isn't that ideal for her but she enjoys some free time during the day so she's fine with that. She's in NW London and paid £10nph if that is of any help.

Good point Welove, hadn't thought of the implication of this on the minimum wage.

Thanks Cathrina, yes I guess it would be full time pay for only pre and post school. We have no pre post school club and because of traffic we stuggle to get back in time for most local childminders "closing time". Whilst we wouldn't be very late home 18.00-18.30 usually, I haven't found a childminder who wants to have the children that late, I also feel that at that point in the day they are getting grumpy and think they would be much happier at home waiting for us, not in someone elses house IYKWIM.

Sorry, Cathyrina, typing whilst trying to make lunch!

Until September you would need to pay full-time at the normal rate because 9-11:45 is really no time at all once she's done the school run etc and remember she won't get a lunch break or any tea breaks or anything so think of an hour of it as her 'break'.

Once the children are at school all day you may be able to offer a slight reduction in hourly rate. I know a couple of families that have this set-up. We're in London though and rates are so high anyway that the nannies are still getting £8.50nph (about £1.50nph less than going rate).

The problem you're going to have is if you take on someone now at normal rate it's going to be difficult to give them a pay-cut in September. Maybe just hold off on any raises rather than cut pay.

Some families ask for one babysit a week to be included to make up for the amount of free time the nanny has. These are families where the nanny isn't doing very much during the day though, is free to go to the gym/home/out for coffee. If you're asking them to be at your house doing stuff you can't really expect this.

The job situation seems to be very bad at the moment so you're definitely in a position to negotiate a good deal for yourself.

Outraged, negiotation is always on the table but a good nanny can always find a job. I started looking to fill my 1 or 2 days and have been offered 3 jobs in one week. The last time I looked I was offered 2. I took the nearest and the job I liked the family most with the longest prospects. The work I'm doing now I hope to be my last nanny roles before I move onto a different career.

Well done you happy, but there is a shortage of jobs at the moment. Do you watch the news? To say that people who can't find a job, can't find one because they're not good at their job is both offensive and complete rubbish. We're in a recession, jobs are hard to come by at the moment.

the one day off may be different every week.
As long as that was known in advance, as far in advance as possible, then it may well not be a problem for some people.

What happens when school is closed? Is this a term-time only job?

Outraged, thank you for the good advice, I think you talk a lot of sense about job shortages, maybe it isn't such a big deal in London due to the density of the population, however if there are less people employed in general then it only makes sense that there will be less families needing childcare. One of the reasons we need this childcare now is because my husband works for a LA who have restructured and are now looking very unfavourably on flexi working hours, putting pressure on him to work a more regular shift pattern which plays havoc with our childcare, however he doesn't feel he can risk pressing them on family friendly working hours due to job losses.

Nannynick, no the job would include full care over the holidays, unless we were off, so I guess I was wondering if I could factor in a more flexible payment method, or pay slightly less per hour as it would probably work out in the nanny's favour in the long term as they would have more weeks with free time (ie time that I would not expect them to be available during the day) than they would have when they had sole care of the children.

When would the nanny take their holiday? Once your children are at school, I expect you will want to limit holidays to being during school holidays.

I would try to keep pay as simple as possible, so fixed amount per week regardless of if it was term time or holiday. Fixed hours per week, so that if the nanny has a day off/week off the holiday entitlement can be calculated easily.

Maybe work out salary on working full hours in holidays but agree to a salary that is a bit lower in exchange for there being periods of on-call time during term time, when they do not need to be at your home but should be contactable by phone should a child need to be collected from school early. So if local area salary is £10 an hour, offer £9 and see if anyone is interested.
Fixed monthly cost will also probably be easier for you to budget for, rather than having variable cost such as different rate for term-time vs school holidays.

I would expect full pay mon-fri for these hours I'm afraid

If it was say mon- thurs then I would look for work on the fri. As you basically need the nanny to be available all 5 days as needed then I would think 5 days need to be paid. If that makes sense. As they would loose out on a whole days pay a week just so they can work if needed.

So say 8am- 7pm is 11hours. I'm not sure with location but maybe £10 gross per hr ( London would be £13-15 gross per hr)

£110 a day, ) £550 a week gross ( I think that's about £350 net to nanny)

happychappy - I must be a really shit Nanny then because I can't find a job for love nor money. I think you'll find that part time jobs are much easier to come by than full-time ones. Please be careful what you say because implying that you must be a bad nanny because you can't get work is extremely offensive to people like me who are actually struggling to cope in this economy

Good nannies can't always find jobs as 1) less jobs about now 2) many younger /cheaper nannies about - and I can not afford to drop my salary to £7phnett

Yes I know - net lol - I kept saying a gross figure to family they kept saying what did that work out gross so they could compare with ither nanies stating nett - so I eventually said £10 nett

Obv £3 nett over a 11hr day is £33 less times 3 days plus then grossing it the family was saving £115 a week - over £5k a year

And op I would need to be paid 5 days if day off changed as means I couldn't find a one day /ad hoc work to bump up my salary

Any chance you could guarantee the same day off as working 4 days is a big bonus to a nanny :)

Agree with the above.
Full days during the school holidays would make up for lower days in term time so perhaps a slightly lower salary reflecting this would work but tbh when my charges are at school I didn't have more than an hour or two "free" after all of the chores were done - nursery duties, cooking, errands, shopping etc. so I wouldn't consider it do much of a perk for a significantly lowered salary.

Really you lot are really easy to offend. Part time jobs are easier to find but thats good for me. I'm prepared to do odd and long hours. You don't need to tell me about work being hard to find my husband has been out of work for months as has my nephew. But I have years of experience, qualfications (inc teaching quals) and am happy to work for reasonable money as long as it's local. I'm also self employed so will take the responsibilities for the tax and NI off their hands. Thats why I have found work relatively easy to find as well as having a network of people who have recommended me.

My point was that the parents who recently offered me work have been very surprised when I stopped and thought wheather it was a job that I wanted to do. I am merely suggesting that some nannies maybe in a better position than you think. I would also say I am not the only nanny in this position I have a few friends who have been offered work they just haven't felt happy to do.

Maybe those nannies that are having trouble need to look in the Cambridge area.

How are you able to be self employed and do a regular job with dictated days/hours?

I though nannies couldn't be classed as self employed? Isn't that a well known tax fiddle?

happy, if you are doing regular work for a family , same day every week, ie set days/hours then you should be employed by them

sure the famillies you are working for are thrilled that you say you are self employed, so no hassle to them, but they are the ones who will get the fine

maybe if nannies got fined as well as the employers-coz they know damn well their employers are fiddling taxes by agreeing to it - then nannies would stop agreeing to being se for a perm position

i am a se employed maternity nurse, night nanny and temporary daytime nanny - but i chose my days and hours, and dicate when i am free to work

i didnt want to work monday as easter monday so i didnt, i didnt work a few weeks ago 2 nights as had plans, so i didnt - this was all agreed at start of night position

tbh there are no perks to being se, we dont get paid holiday or sick pay, or snow pay, like the other week when i couldnt travel 4 miles to where i was working nights

so why nannies actually want to be se is beyond me

You can be self employed if you work irregular hours and work for two or more families which I do. So blonde be careful of accusing me of fiddling my taxes, actually there are a number of benefits as there are for anyone else who is self employed. Its all perfectly legal and above board. Why am I being attacked for just pointing out that possibly some nannies can pick and choose who and what work they would like to do.

i didnt say you were fiddling tax's - i said the positions you do should be classed as employed

can you decide not to work next week if you wanted time off - or the week after - would your family mind?

the average perm nanny job whether 1 day or 3 or 5 is employed as the employer decide the hours/wages/days etc

when i said fiddling i meant the nannies who knowingly work for employers but say they will be se, but dont pay tax or fiddle it

an agency i know told a nanny that she could be se for a reg 3 day job - total rot - sure her boss wouldnt be impressed if she said i cant come in next monday

but up to you what you do and what the people you work for do :)

but i honestly dont see any benefit being se, yes you can claim for things expenses but it doesnt balance up against sick pay, smp, holidays - unless i am missing a trick or two :)

I can and yes they probably would but thats the contract they have agreed to. Weve agreed when I will take time off and I am paid for some of the time I have off as I want to work, its a retainer, more or less like a childminder does. She has booked my time and the other family have booked their time. Just like any other se person I can clain for my car, phone and some home expenses as well as day to day stuff as they are all things related and used by my work. It has given me a lot more freedom to work as and when I would like. I am currently studying so need on occasion not to work so I can do the residential stuff and cram for exams. It works for me but probably not for everybody. Plus I used to be a bookkeeper so a simple P&L and a few tax regs really is no big deal and means I can charge that little bit extra.

Could you use a childminder for the morning school runs and then employ a nanny for after school hours (say 3 - 7) for term times and full time holidays? May suit someone who is perhaps at college and has the school day commitment but is available full time during the holidays.

Please everyone else, I haven't been a nanny or employed a nanny so if what I am suggesting is abhorrent to a nanny/childcare worker don't shoot!

I'm just trying to think of the most cost effective way, particularly once your children are full time at school. Just seems to me paying £8-10 ph for 6 hours when your nanny isn't actively engaged in looking after your children is a bit of a waste of money. But again, just telling it as I see it!