Self employed?

[civilfawlty]

Hi there. We have a nanny for the first time. I understood we employed her, paid her tax and ni etc etc. However, she wants to be self employed. She is part time- 3.5 days with us, 1-1.5 elsewhere. I thought this wasn't possible. The agency we got her through are unhelpful. She is brilliant and I dont want to lose her. Equally I don't want the HMRC on my case. Does anyone have any words of wisdom please?

It's unlikely she will be able to be self-employed. There is some guidance here. I would give HMRC a call and check. It will be you that gets a fine if you don't pay her tax/NI and it later transpires she wasn't self-employed.

Why does she want to be self-employed?

Are you using nannytax or similar to deal with tax/NI payments? They should be able to offer you some advice.

Do you want to tell her what hours to work, tell her what to do?
If she has had lots of very few hour roles she may be selfemployed but that does not mean she is automatically self employed when doing your job.
She may be working 35 hours or more over 3.5 days, its not the same as abit of ad-hoc work here and there.

She should contact HMRC status team, get a decision in writing.

I would also query why she would want to be self employed in a permanent role. No holiday entitlement, no statutory pYments like SSP. She has the hassle of doing accounts and tax return.

you dictate the hours and days, you employ her - do not let her tell you differently, you will be liable for any tax and possible fine for tax evasion

tbh i dont know why she wants to be self employed? no benefits, like paid holidays/sick pay

i am self employed, but i temp, i flit from family to family and chose what days/hours i do - some days. some nights

but if i worked for one family and permanently then i would be employed and enjoy not having the hassle of filling out a tax return next month

The only reason I can see for her wanting to be self employed is so she can declare less to HMRC.

I am self employed but only for temp and ad hoc work. Anything long term and I insist on being employed. It's lovely to have paid holidays

Turns out she is on a visa which means she can only be self employed. She has been here for 5+ years nannying on this basis. She is great, kids love her. Don't know what to do!

What country are they from? They may be able to get the visa restriction lifted.
Otherwise you could let them do it as self emplpyed but take copies of ID docs including the visa and any info stating they can only be self employed. Also call UKBA for advice as they deal with the visa.

This document may be relevant.

"When making any self-employed application to UKBA, the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and Her Majesty?s Revenue and Customs (HMRC), we will consider all of the circumstances of your case. We will make our decisions based on the information and evidence provided with your application. For this purpose, a Registration Certificate will not be evidence that you continue to be self-employed on an ongoing basis."

However that seems something to do with Treaty Right.

You really need to confirm with UKBA what the visa is, if it is still valid, what restrictions there are on it, and if it does state that the person can only be self-employed does UKBA have any guidance as to what that means for you in offering the person a job (thus what would usually be of employed status).

If they are genuinely self employed or not may be the issue here. With your role being 3.5 days it could be hard to argue that it falls under self employment.

As they have been in the UK 5 years, have they applied for confirmation of permanent residence? Assuming they are from EEA, then see Residence documents for European nationals for more info.

I would ring HMRC, don't risk it. I think you can ask for whatever they tell you in writing so you should be protected if anyone queries it in the future.

If the nanny has been doing a job that she isn't self-employed for, but just claiming self-employed isn't she breaking the terms of her visa? It all sounds very dodgy to me.