CM club - violence and bad behaviour from mindees.

[WorriedMary]

I am a regular but I've name changed.

I look after brothers 9 and 5.
Before I took them on I heard they were badly behaved for their parents from a family member. I chose to judge for myself.

To start with they were fine, with one incident in September where they oldest kicked the youngest in a game of football when he'd got the better of him. Cue lots of bad language, youngest ran off, told me to F off. All that week the youngest continued to swear. Mum was informed and dealt with it. Although I do hear that the source of the language is the parents!

Last week they fell out again and youngest swore and started swiping at other children. So removed him from the room.

This week the oldest kicked DS (6) in between the legs, for no reason other than in a role play game DS got the better of him.
I didn't witness it as was just sat at table out of sight. But I know it was deliberate by the mindees guilty reaction and what DS said.

I told him calmly but v firmly that that behaviour does not happen on my home. To which the youngest brother replied we do it at home! The oldest brother was made to apologise but continued to sulk. Youngest brother started to throw things and was rude.

One of the other children (3) said 'you are sitting there because you kicked DS1' to which he replied 'I'm sitting here so I don't kick his head in' (repeated it again)

At this point I removed them from the room and made them wait for their mother in the hall.

Mum handled it well and I received an apology from child.

But how much would you put up with? I'm not so worried about the kick (as a one off) as children make mistakes. But it's how the threat might affect my DS particularly as its his home where it has happened.

I'm just worried the behaviour will become more common as they seem to have found their feet. The youngest tantrums most days when he is collected and it is most uncomfortable.
There seems to be no reasoning with them when they reach the point of lashing out/ tantruming.

Any experience or tips gratefully received.

Mary x

hmmm tricky one

What does your behaviour policy say - and do you have house rules?

tbh if talking to parents had no or little effect and the threats are continuing I would give notice, you have a responsibility to all the children in your care incl your own offspring

This may seem harsh I'm afraid

There seems to be 'stuff' going on for these boys, but for me, I would have to give notice. I certainly wouldn't have that behaviour in my house particularly if it affected my own child. I had a child in the holidays that purposely hurt my daughter twice, I did not take her back.

My behaviour policy is very inclusive as it was composed as part of the training provided by the early years department at my LA.
It says nothing about terminating contracts if behaviour is bad! I think I'd have failed the course if I'd put that.

I haven't done any house rules yet. I will do that Monday. Although they know the behaviour is unacceptable.

I have spoken to DH about it and we feel the same that if it happens again I give them notice as it isn't fair on our DC's or minded DC.

It has actually made me want to quit altogether.

The EYFS is very clear when it states that the care of over 8's must not affect the care of any EYFS children.

I would give notice in this case but I understand it's very hard.

It is very difficult as its a small town.
With only one other CM serving the school. With no after school club.
And the parents need me every day.

I agree there must be other things going on for the kids. As their behaviour is well known amongst friends and family. So much so relatives and even a friend of family have asked my DMother how I am getting on with them!

Luckily the only EYFS aged child was my own DS(3).

I think I would have to act quite differently if he'd hurt a younger mindee. But then again it's not ok for my children to get hurt.

Make it quite clear to them next time they come that there is to be no hitting or swearing. Get their parents to back you up. If anything happens, give notice.

Bear in mind that the boys are currently testing you out. They have found their feet and are now working out where the boundaries lie and how firm they are.

You are quite right that the behaviour may continue to escalate as they become more at home in your setting. However, if they get the message that you are very much in charge and they miss out on pleasant experiences as a result of their unacceptable behaviour, they may settle down again.

I would try very hard to take a very positive attitude towards them, make sure they are doing things they enjoy but call them openly and quickly on any sign of the aggression and rudeness returning.

There's no knowing which way this will go but I have had surprisingly positive experiences with children when they realise that, Although I will not tolerate certain behaviour, the boundaries are clear and I do not bear grudges.

Can you try to get the older child on side by giving him a little extra responsibility to boost his self esteem and give him a reason to step up a little?

I would persevere.

There have been two incidents 4 months apart and they're normally with you 5 days a week? That doesn't sound like awful, unmanageable beahviour to me.

From what you say it sounds like the older brother sat in time-out when you told him to and then moved to the hall way when you told him to? So he does listen to some extent? There is some managing him?

The only reason I would give notice for a behavioural issue would be if it was constant and unmanageable.

I agree with trying to make them feel comfortable and having a chance to enjoy your setting by behaving well, but be clear where your boundaries are. Maybe they could help you write a house rules poster? They might buy into it a bit more if it shows their ideas.

I agree with HSMM. Try this tact before giving notice. You may find they respond really well to positive praise and being given some responsibility.

Definitely not going to give notice at the mo.I will do the house rules poster with them.

It was made very clear by me and his Mum that it was unacceptable and he did apologise and I gave him a hug.

On the day it happened I could tell part of the issue was that he was embarrassed that I'd told him off as he likes me and likes coming to my house.

You are right the incidents are quite far apart so don't show unmanageable behaviour. But I would be so worried though if the behaviour happened at the start of the day and I had to try to get them to school. But that hasn't happened so I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I will give him responsibility (he helps with 3 yr old mindee and my DS(3) ) So will add to that and heap on the praise.

Well done WorriedMary. Hope it goes well this week.

I've had another bad few days with the youngest sibling.

Swearing, throwing things and running off on the way to school - to cut 3 sessions 'activities'short to say the least!
He even gave me the bird when I took a key off him.

We have been through the rules when at my house, had a great half term (3 full days) but things have deteriorated and I feel I need to either issue a warning to parents that I will give notice if it happens again or actually give notice, as the safety of him and my other children are at risk.

What would you do and how would you do it?

Sounds like you've tried your best and if you think the situation isn't going to get better then I think if I was in your position I'd give notice. His behaviour is putting all of you at risk. If you've repeatedly spoken to his parents about his behaviour, will they be surprised? Don't think it reflects on you as a cm and bearing in mind that when you're out and about you may be being seen by prospective parents so his behaviour might impact your business in the future. Make sure you document every incident. If you issue a warning to give notice do you think this will alter his behaviour long term? If not then I'd give immediate notice. I'm sure someone with more experience will b along soon to advise you how best to actually word it. Good luck.

Thank you.
I don't think his behaviour will change.
To me it seems deep routed and smacks of him being given his own way to keep the peace. He is also bribed a lot, when he is displaying bad behaviour. I.e he will not put shoes on and Mum promises him if he does they'll do or have something nice when they get in.

I don't want to go into too much detail as it could possibly identify me, but I can understand the reasons behind the behaviour. Arguing at home, bad language and a parent who works away - who they miss deeply.

Oh mate this is so hard

How about a formal letter home outlining the issues, the steps you have taken to address them, give a time frame for improvements to be made, and spell out the fact that giving notice is a real possibility.

Or if you are just too sick of it all, give notice and move on.

Thanks.

we can help you to bash out some wording if you like; I am about tomorrow if you wanna chew the fat, orf to bed now m'dear

Cheers.
I'm about tomorrow as have no kiddie winks in the day.
I think I'm going to say if there's no improvement I will give notice.
Letter might be best as he often tries to do a runner as I talk to her.
Off to bed too.

I gave notice after being kicked and hit, (because I held his hand so he didn't run off again.)

Feel awful, the Mum cried and asked me to reconsider.