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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

unregistered CM

40 replies

fairylightsinthesnow · 28/01/2013 09:16

We think we have found a perfect new CM but she is still working toward being registered - paperwork issues rather than real ones IFSWIM but other than not being able to use childcare vouchers, are there any other downsides to this? We need to start with her right away having given notice to our current one due to DS being manifestly unhappy with her. Many thanks for any input

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Flisspaps · 28/01/2013 19:20

You cannot sack a CM as they're not your employee.

HSMM · 28/01/2013 19:27

I'm a CM and I work 50+ hrs per week. I'm self employed because I dictate my hours, set my charges, provide a setting, decide when I'm available and no one can sack me.

ReetPetit · 28/01/2013 19:45

lol at totally, whos been going on about firing and sacking her cm for ages....
you can not,as others have said,sack or fire soneone who is not your employee....

TotallyBS · 28/01/2013 19:48

Mary - if a CM has several clients then by definition that CM obviously cannot be employed by several people. Hence the self employed status.

But Zoo was accusing me of dodging employers NI for the mum that I was using as a CM. My 'explainationo' was directed at THAT scenario. If a CM only had one client AND her hours was above a certain threshold then HMRC would deem that person to be an employee.

In the case of your 40 hour CM, if she had only one client then she can insist that her employer pays NI. Whether such a CM presses such a claim is another matter.

Anyway, this knowledge comes from being an employer abeit on a very small scale and from running a 5 person business. Believe it or don't believe it. I'm not sufficiently interested in this thread to want to convince Zoo and Reet of my 'explanation'

TotallyBS · 28/01/2013 19:54

Ok Reet, if you want to be pedantic about it, I told the CM that her services was no longer required. Happy now?

MrAnchovy · 28/01/2013 19:57

"HMRC's ruling is that if someone works for you for more than x hours then that person is deemed to be an employee."

No it isn't.

This isn't the kind of forum where you can just make up stuff and say how important you are and people take note of what you are saying: perhaps you would find an audience elsewhere?

BoysAreLikeDogs · 28/01/2013 20:07

ooh Mr A

ReetPetit · 28/01/2013 20:14

just for you Totally,as you still seem to be unable to grasp the concept - you have never employed a cm - you were her client. and cms do not have employers. they run their own businesses. this is why they pay their own tax and ni - nothing to do with hours worked. hope this is clearer mow Totally

Fightlikeagirl · 28/01/2013 20:14

Childminders are NOT employed by anyone. We are SELF employed and parents/carers pay us for a service. Many of us work full time and we DO pay NI and tax if we earn over the threshold but sort this out ourselves.

No aggression just winds me up when people say they employ childminders!!!

< High 5 Reet, Zoo and MaryP >

ReetPetit · 28/01/2013 20:18

high 5 fight

Original poster

fairylightsinthesnow · 28/01/2013 20:21

thanks totally that is pretty much exactly our situation. DH and I are minded to let this person take over after our notice period is up and help her in any way we can to get qualified PDQ. She is highly recommended by people who know her well and she has her own kids, all known to those who have recommended her. We are in a bit of sticky situation here and (assuming she will do it) would rather solve it by having the kids well looked after than sticking to the letter of the law. For various reasons to do with locations and schools we don't have a large pool of options. As far as the incipient bunfight is concerned, I'll leave you ladies to it, but my understanding was always that CM are self-employed and nannies are employed by you. To say you can't "sack" a CM, whilst possibly technically correct, is nit-picking. If you choose to dispense with using someone's services, because they are not meeting your expectations, then you are, in effect, sacking them.

OP posts:

MrAnchovy · 28/01/2013 20:32

Perhaps that was a bit harsh, I'll take it back - but if you are going to make a statement about what HMRC say you should check your references first, and if it is something controversial or difficult to find preferably provide a reference like this one.

As it happens there is a crucial difference between TotallyBS's situation and fairylightsinthesnow.

If you pay a person who is a friend to look after your child in the person's house and you pay them other than in cash (or cash equivalent such as vouchers) then that person does NOT have to register as a childminder.

Ofsted's guidance on this is here.

Flisspaps · 28/01/2013 20:36

It may be nit-picking to you, but as a self-employed person, it is important to me. To sack someone is to terminate the employment of an employee.

I am not an employee, ergo I cannot be sacked.

You can however, terminate your contract, or give notice.

HSMM · 28/01/2013 20:42

I'm a Childminder. If I want to, I'll have 1 client and work 1 or 60 hrs per week, but I'll still be self employed and they still can't sack me. (And yes ... I know I don't have to be registered to work 1 hr per week)

hollie11 · 31/01/2013 14:02

I am a cm and work mon-fri 8am-6pm (50 hours per week) I don't think it's a matter of not enough hours!

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