Ex nursery workers as nanny - never again?

[grumbleinthejungle]

We are on to our second former nursery worker turned nanny and are beginning to wonder if they are frankly, rubbish and lazy.

Our experience to date has been: they are EXCELLENT at shmoozing the parents. They tell you what you want to hear and appear confident in handling the children. They have all the patter about child development and first aid.

But in reality both have manipulated the job for their own needs rather than that of the children. Do they all go wild when they are freed from the nursery leash? The ones we have had were not rookies - they were mid-20s but behaving like I did as a teen.

The biggest problem we have found is that they have organised to suit their own social needs rather than those of the kids. Am all for playdates - but four to five hours long indoors?

Even when our daughter was poorly she was dragged halfway across our town so the nanny could catch up with her friends.

The other common problem we found with both, apart from attitude, was terrible untidiness and complete lack of cooking skills.

There is no willingness at all to engage in nursery duties, despite it being a basic and spelled out part of the job. Am so fed up with nagging that I end up doing it after an 11 hour working day, or cutting in my precious weekend time with kids.

Despite grilling them (sorry) on cooking skills ahead of the hiring, we found both not just rubbish at cooking, but completely disinterested in learning or making an effort. One ex nursery nanny was even getting a mate round to knock up food which she passed off as her own.

So would I be nuts to ever hire another ex nursery worker? Have other mumsnetters had experiences with them?

Interestingly, despite being foreign, we seem to be the only family in my social circle who have (coincidentally) ended up with British nannies.

Is the CBI right that employers naturally favour foreigners because they believe foreigners have a strong work ethic?

You've had two bad ex-nursery, British nannies. Can you make a judgement about all ex-nursery nannies? No. Can you make a judgement about the work ethic of all British people? No.

Nursery workers don't usually prepare food, undertake nursery duties, or work alone. If these qualities are very important to you, then you may be best employing someone who has previous nanny/au pair experience then you can check with their past employers how good they were at those tasks.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the playdates as long as your child is enjoying them. What makes you think he/she isn't?

Out of interest, why have you gone for ex-nursery staff twice before? Were they cheaper than nannies with experience?

We hired a brand new nanny who was an ex-nursery worker and she was fantastic. She had worked her way through the nursery, working with all the age groups and increasing her qualifications, and ended up as the manager/ senco, which she had been for three years. She had run out of steam in the role due to the amount of paperwork and bureaucracy, and wanted to get back to interacting with children.

I had three children under five at the time, one of whom was an 18 month old with significant disabilities and health needs, requiring copious amounts of physio and feeding/ communication support. I needed someone who could cope with three kids under 5 and not be overwhelmed by the responsibility of disability, and who was additionally literate, articulate, and capable of liaising with therapists at the frequent sessions on my behalf.

I also needed someone who would be able to cope with taking the kids out and about, and coping with the fact that the developmental milestones were something of a pipe dream for at least one of the kids. It wasn't exactly your dream job. dd2 wasn't expected to be able to walk or talk, so the job came with the added excitement of learning how to utilize the many and varied items of monstrously sized disability equipment that festooned my house.

I spent a large proportion of the interviews asking how candidates would feel pushing a wheelchair in the street and being stared at. I couldn't have anyone in for an easy ride.

As an added bonus, she cooked, did laundry, ironed, and cleaned my house. Um, and she was British.

I'd hire another ex-nursery nurse, yep.

(We did have an experienced nanny at one point - after I had offered her the job, she said 'oh, I'd really like to thank you for not discounting me because of my past history.' She had run off with her previous employer's dh. she was still great, but my dh was frankly terrified...)

We've had an ex-nursery nanny for over 5 years (so far). She has been fab. Just that. Everything you would hope for, and more.
I think you have been unlucky.

Ex nursery worker here now been nannying for over 4years. You will find that you may have I guide slightly and help them out whilst they adjust. As a British nanny I am hard working and not lazy and fully enjoying doing what I'm doing. Your circle of friends do they employe a non British nanny due to a lot of attitudes I've seen at first hand. Due to the fact that these non British 'nannies' come from a developing country so happy to receiver a lower wage then a qualified/trained nanny and do the cooking/cleaning for the family/childcare etc which again I've seen first hand the difference in wages.

I sympathise with you to a point, you've been very unfortunate to have two nannies who've not lived up to your expectations. But it's unfair to label them as British ex-nursery workers. I'm a British ex-nursery worker (even if it was only 6 months!) but I don't agree with her taking your unwell child on a play date. I've had some terrible bosses in my 22 years of nannying but I don't label them (apart from them being terrible) into categories, not even the one who after nearly three years screamed at me down the phone for leaving 6 items of ironing over the weekend!
Maybe you'd be suited to a more mature nanny who doesn't have the need to be with other nannies for her entire working day. Just like I've realised that working for SAHM's is not the best position for me. But....by making these decisions, I could miss out on a superb family in the future and you could miss out on on a superb nanny.
Madwomanintheattic - hilarious!!!

I'm an NNEB Nursery Nurse of 25 years and I find your sweeping judgements insulting - maybe its your ability to choose the correct person that is questionable. Or maybe the 'workers' you are employing are not highly qualified, and therefore you are not having to pay as much as you would otherwise be expected to do.

Apologies for causing any offence mysleighcalldtrev. The headline was a bit OTT in order to get some reaction. You are right, I am cr*p at hiring. Too soft at managing too and I let things slide as am always trying to see it from nanny's pov. Do you think perhaps things have changed since your day in terms of pride in one's work and responsibility?

We hired ex nursery because they always came across the best. I also had confidence in their abilities to stimulate DCs and administer first aid. They were actually MORE qualified rather than less, as they had NVQs in child development etc.

Many of the non-nursery nannies were simply inexperienced.

Others were hugely educated in other areas - masters in engineering etc. These tended to be from central and eastern Europe. Many seemed very serious and a bit aloof and not very interactive with kids. I worried that they were doing it for the money rather than because they were phssionate about childcare.

Also, was kind of determined to prove a point by hiring Brits as we are foreign and want our kids to integrate as much as possible. Plus, being here is a privilege and frankly we want to give back.

Again, I have nothing against playdates and my DCs love some social interaction but the nanny gang were always round at ours for hours on end. I someone keeping an eye and feedback I got was lots of interaction between the nannies but minimal playing with the children.

Sorry but I do not pay someone to socialise for 70 per cent of the day while ignoring my kids. We ruled our nursery because we thought esp for younger tots one on one care was of a higher quality.

Also, the place would be a mess whenever I got home and that would mean we spent time clearing up that should be devoted to the kids or - gasp - relaxing.

Thanks very much for all your feedback, esp the ex nursery workers who I WILL look at again. I think we were just unlucky.

This british, very experienced non nursery worker nanny is as qualified as most of the nannies I have met with a nursery history and I certainly didn't go into it for the money! I began my career as a nanny because I wanted to work with children and thought I had a lot to offer in that field.

Be careful grumblein the jungle; You are digging yourself into ever an deeper hole! any other childcare workers you would care to insult!

That should read an ever deeper hole, sorry long day.

'I someone keeping an eye and feedback I got was lots of interaction between the nannies but minimal playing with the children'

What does that mean? You had someone keeping an eye on them while they were on a playdate?! Do you mean you had a neighbour peering through the window? Or a secret camera set-up?

I've had a ex nursery nanny and she was fine, but it was in a shared care position and she did need a lot of guidance, but to be fair if someone hasn't done a particular job before they will need training.
Maybe you just need to be a bit more stong on guidance. Write down exactly which meals you consider suitable for the children ask if she/he knows how to cook them.
Tell the nanny what activities and playgroups you need them to go to and limit playdates.
Write a nanny bible with exactly what housework they need to do, kids washing 2x a week, put it away etc. kitchen stuff, wipe surfaces at the end of the day, sweep floor, mop it if it gests covered in mud. Put toys away at the end of the day in the correct boxes. I suspect most early 20something nursery nurses don't have their own home, so they're probably not used to keeping one.
Signe was very good after a month or so and quite open to being "managed", which is obviously a benefit from nursery background.
Good luck - hope you find someone good

Just say when you hire a next nanny that you really like xyz ( I'm a really outdoorsy nanny for example so rain or shine we are outside for at least a few ours in proper rain/ warm gear.) just say you are happy for playdates but would prefer if half of them could be meeting outside or something..

Many people hire foreign workers as they are happy to do all housework as well as childcare, often for v little money and over v long hours

Sunshinenanny - hilarious! Let's see, au pairs next? Outraged from Leeds The someone I had keeping an eye was very unassuming houseguest. All the more gob-smacking that they mucked around so much when not alone! Karoleanne, that is exactly what we should have done. But am new to this so did almost thought they would teach me. Guess it backs up the theory that parents know their offspring best, no matter how haphazard (as I tend to be). Forevergreek, focus was always childcare, ten per cent housework is what we were after.

I think you have few things going on here.

1. You may need to brush up on the nanny employer day to day mgmt. skills. Sounds like things got way out of control and the relationship was beyond repair before you got a handle on the situation. Employing a nanny is in my view more difficult than most mgmt positions because you are almost never there to interact face to face during working hours. So communication at handover is so very very important. I would suggest you have formal frequent reviews with you next nanny to ensure you get off on the right foot and her performance is aligned with you expectations. Also, think about giving her loads of written guidance (schedules, contacts of key friends, suggested recipes, expectations on tidiness, etc.) which she can reference when you are not around. And use all of this information together with her contractual duties as a basis for the reviews.

1. Is you hiring process really producing the candidates with qualities you are seeking? Have a think about what really matters to you on the job, and focus your questions in that direction.

1. Last but not least two is a very small sample on which to make a broad sweeping generalisation. I personally have never hired an x nursery worker. I have also never hired a British nanny. So i cant comment on either.