Nanny - do I change?

[flyingcloud]

A nanny dilemma.

I have had a nanny for nearly a year now. We were left high and dry at short notice and found her quickly, and in the most part it has worked out great.

However a few of the things that we specified in the interview have not been adhered to.

1. Cooking - she is really rubbish at it and the DDs' diets are fairly monotonous. I have bought her a cookery book for children but she hasn't opened it once...
2. Flexibility - the ability to work weekends, stay overnight, etc, keeping within her working hours and affording her the same flexibility in return.

After six months she said she wouldn't work weekends, or stay overnight (I suspect her boyfriend won't 'let' her, but I have no proof of this).

And her general tidiness and organisation is fairly rubbish too. I have to ring her in the evenings sometimes to double check DDs meal times, sleep times, and what they've eaten because she hasn't written it down. She lets their laundry slide until it piles up and she doesn't keep their bedroom as clean as it should be.

This is slightly controversial for here, but she also won't do general housework. My experience of all my friends' nannies (here in France) is that they do a large portion of the housework. I have read a lot on here on MN that this is not the norm, but for my experience it is (so am open-minded about this).

In saying all that, she is fantastic with the DDs. She spends a lot of time doing activities with them (mainly indoor, as she's not an outdoorsy type). She never shouts, she is strict without being mean. And DD1 (2.8) adores her. Her timekeeping is impeccable. I have no worries for their care and well-being.

The flexibility issue is a big one and I have found someone who fills the first three criteria (she has filled in at weekends already) and is flexible and willing to work.

However, I really don't know what to do. Current nanny really is good with the girls, but doesn't make my life a lot easier. I find myself stressed with cooking, washing and cleaning on my days off. I rarely know what my working hours are going to be a week in advance, which constantly leaves me struggling to find last minute help. Having a nanny was supposed to solve a lot of those issues for me.

Do I change? Would appreciate your opinions, please.

DrJ - no, I think you just have a very balanced view on what can be achieved and what kids actually need - very refreshing :)

FC - yes - I'm sure you have seen nannies do a lot more, but are the children happy/loved/cared for or just 'minded' while the housework is done. You can have a 'balance' but you can't have it all.

Chippingin, I think DrJ and I are on the same page, she is just describing it a lot better!

I think I am on the same page as you flyingcloud. I don't want amazing clay creations at home every evening - I want happy, calm kids and a clean & tidy house! I do think I am very lucky with my nanny - she is not perfect (cooking!) but she thinks her job is to make my life easier wherever she can and she does, while being loving and engaged with the children. In fact, I need to go away and pray that she never leaves .

But other posters have said, and I think this is a good point, that your life is at maximum stress right now. There is no worse time imho. I almost lost it with a 3 yo and a 9mo and a full time job. It was just the hardest, hardest time. But my conclusion is perhaps different to some of the other posters. I think it's legitimate at this stage in your life to say that you need more of a focus on your stuff - the domestic drudgery. The endless cooking and sweeping. There's plenty of time for an amazing, creative nanny later. It obviously goes without saying that whoever does the job needs to be loving, attentive, engaged. But perhaps you are saying at this point you need more attention on sharing the load and less attention on giving the children amazing things to do at home each day.

BTW, it gets easier! My youngest is 3 now and I am looking up fireworks displays to take them to later. As in actually choosing to do something with them after work instead of just trying to get through the days!

Ah, almost cried reading your post.

Thank you (and thank you for saying it gets easier, I hope it does!)

I think the flexibility you describe is virtually impossible to achieve - look how difficult you are finding it to organise your life around your unpredictable work schedule! Even though you may have found someone who is prepared to be more flexible do you think it is sustainable? What may seem okay to her now may change when she is doing it week in and out or when her social life and your requirements are incompatible. I would never expect my nanny to stay over or work weekends at short notice as she is a person with a life of her own. IF i needed her to and she could do it then great but I would never expect it as a matter of course and how on earth would you contract for it?

In all my experience of nannies the ones I have liked best are the ones who focus on my DD not on the house. My long term nanny was pretty messy but my daughter adored her. Other parents told me I should get her to tidy up while DD napped but actually I couldn't expect her to (or in fact legally make her) work her full 11 hour day without a break of some sorts! I've had temp nannies where I have come home to an immaculate house but when I asked what my daughter had done all day it was limited. I prefer her to have a child focused nanny than a housework focused one. Now my DD is older I am happy for her to get on with her own stuff while nanny tidies but when she was smaller she needed more supervision especially when she was under 3.

Having worked in France I would also check out the employment law as in my experience if offers greater protection to the employee than in the UK so you would probably need to recompense her for contract termination to avoid legal challenge.

Have you consider an au pair to supplement your nanny? If you have space for someone to stay over then you could use the au pair for the housework and ad-hoc babysitting and the nanny for the child focused stuff.

Both me and DH are self-employed and sometimes work crazy hours (12 hour day is normal for DH, I try to keep it to 10 and catch up from home in the evenings) and have to travel for work as well. We commit to our nanny for one of us to be back for 6:30 pm at latest 7 pm, we plan in advance for our travel and we have a back up list of babysitters. It's not ideal and it doesn't always work but we do our best. Is it possible for you to shift some of your workload in to the evenings? Since French employment laws are more protective is your employer expecting too much of you? What about working time directive?

There is always the old adages - "better the devil you know" and "the grass is always greener" to think about - you know the shortcomings of what you have now - are you really sure the replacement nanny would be better?

Good luck with your decision!

Windy

We have a nanny to cover my 'flexible working days' and some occasional overnights. However, I do get my schedule of working days/overnights at least 2 weeks in advance. It does work and the recruited nanny must know this when applying/accepting the job. Our flexible arrangement is written in the contract so no excuse when they have signed it lol.

In my experience, a nanny with poor standards, who is inflexible and does not fulfill the contractual obligations creates enormous amounts of stress for the parent. We had the same situation with a previous nanny. Our nanny role is to look after the toddlers, cook a well balanced meal, wash-up childrens things, take to or organise activities for the toddlers, childrens laundry, make their beds/keep bedrooms tidy, change their beds once a week, tidy/keep play areas clean, bath children and put to bed, tidy away toys at the end of the day. All of these duties are the general things that the encompass looking after the children. As I work diff days each week some things were done on a particular day such as bed changes. Some weeks this was my job as I was off, other weeks it is the nanny's job. With our previous nanny we had issues with cleanliness (washing-up), not doing the laundry or doing this poorly, burning anything cooked or boiled dry (almost set fire to house), leaving house unsecured, not doing anything engaging with the children, poor relationship with one toddler. All of these things were extremely stressful to us all including the one child who was scared/emotional every day the nanny came. On my days off I did end up doing so much more, like catching up on the laundry or sorting out the poorly done laundry, re-washing up utensils etc soiled with dried food remnants, sorting out the toys and putting them back complete and then doing the usual child-related things that we all need to do everyday. I also should point out that as a parent running a home, there are often other things to sort out that a nanny wouldn't do like paying bills, phoning people, organising appointments, banking etc all of which take time. I always felt that the nanny and I should both do a share of the child related chores so that on my days off I am not picking up things that they haven't done, likewise I don't expect them to do my share. We did take the previous nanny through disciplinary action (verbal and written) in the hope that this might encourage some improvement, but alas after several warnings she left. We now have an energetic nanny who engages very well with the children, take them out, does lots of things with them and also fulfills the child-related duties. Most importantly, our scared/emotional toddler is her happy-self again and I am much less stressed. I do get sad that they do all the fun things with our nanny and I don't so much but she is paid to keep my children happy and at the end of the day I get the warmest, biggest happy smiley welcome from my children when I get home!

Is she a nanny or a nounou? And do your friends have nannies or nounous?

A nanny (often anglophone, usually trained, experienced) often won't do housework. A nounou usually will. A nanny will take the educational side very seriously. A nounou will just 'mind' the children. You need to look at the cultural interplay here because sone nannies distinguish themsces, for want of a better word, by not doing housework, the same way British ones do. I personally would rather have a nanny nanny but I'm it that fussed about the state of the house.

And yes, before firing her take a long hard look at the employment law specifics. It is very hard to fire someone on a CDI, even for sheer incompetence.

However if she is refusing to carry out contracted flexible hours you can probably terminate the arrangement.

I don't think you are asking too much at all flying cloud and I totally agree with DrJ. My nanny looks after the children, has days out, walks, park visits,etc etc, cleans, does the washing,makes some appointments,pays bills, orders heating oil.. Basically fills my role when I am at work. It is not too much to ask at all! I don't think you should have to hire a cleaner and a nanny!

Frak, nounou is just French for nanny, isnt it? (she's a Nounou).

Thanks again for all your replies.

Not really. The expectations are different.

A nounou is a nanny in that they both provide at home childcare by many people in Paris, and to a lesser extent the rest of Framce distinguish between a nounou who watches the kids, does the cleaning, prepares a meal, is generally a stand in for the parent and a nanny/'nurse' who is only there for the children and may even not do nursery duties. The distinction is particularly pronounced where you have a high concentration of expat British nannies and/or expat families.

What people, particularly those with experience of 'nannies', expect can vary hugely. Nounous should more accurately be termed sole charge mothers' helps in English because the job of an in home childcarer just isn't the same culturally.

As a fully qualified and experienced nanny ( 2 degrees, Montessori, 101 other extra courses). I would personally be horrified if someone thought I wasn't doing my job and I didn't scrub their toilets and clean their sheets!

I simply did not train to be someone's cleaner/ personal slave

You say your husband works 13 hours so can't do anything. Maybe think about a nanny to. A typical nanny in the uk works 12 hrs a day. Then goes home and has to repeat half of it in their own home. I work 65 hours a week as standard, so no I am not going to be flexible. I have my own life outside spending half of it at work and I wouldn't and can't just drop everything and come running if my employers need me more hours.

I would suggest upping your cleaners hours ( honestly can't see how you have so much to do after nanny sorts children's things and you already have a cleaner, but apparently so)

And look to employ an additional person to work evenings and weekends.

People are often shocked at how often they need a new nanny as they leave, but it's hardly surprising with some people's attitudes. ( for record my shortest job has been 5 years)

I simply did not train to be someone's cleaner/ personal slave

This absolutely exemplifies the difference. In France a nounou often isn't trained. If you get through the DTAP you find a nice, guaranteed for life job in a nursery doing 35 hours a week. flying doesn't have a nanny the way most posters on here understand the job.

No, I certainly didn't employ a nanny to be my personal slave. I don't consider myself my family's slave for keeping on top of the day to day housework, and as she takes my place while I am at work, I expect her to do the same, which doesn't qualify as slave.

And I certainly don't ask my nanny to work the same hours I do.

I am 'cadre' which means that my employer can ask me to work more (although under the new govt I am being taxed heavily for overtime which is having a big impact on my finances). I work about 60 hours a week during six months of the year and 40 hours a week the other six months. I make up my hours in the evening and at weekends.

She works the maximum 35 hours (she was contracted to work 40, but rarely did over 35 due to her unwillingness to be flexible, so I have changed her contract back to 35, with her agreement).

And no she's not trained, in fact I have never even met a trained nanny, as Frak said there is a cultural difference here, but equally I thought nanny applied to anyone looking after children in the parents' home so I apologise for not being clear or accurate.

Basically, I am not coping very well and I need to find a solution. One that is best for everyone.

And to have the opinion of nannies (in-home care providers) is just as important, so again I thank you all.

flyingcloud, you aren't being unreasonable. You offered her the job, she knew the job when she took it, it's not like you've changed the boundaries- she has.

Expecting her to do light house work was explained. She understood. She doesn't do it. You've pointed this out. She doesn't sustain the change. You need to make the right decision for your family- regardless of what other nannies expect. You know the service you want is on offer, you shouldn't feel guilty about this.

I really hope you resolve this soon.