Childminders - how many holiday days do you take a year?

[AddictedToGin]

Please can you let me know what is a suitable number of holiday days to take a year. I am a parent and looking for a childminder and wandered what the average is? Thanks

I take up to 4 weeks (well, 20 days) but on top of that I am officially CLOSED between Christmas and New Year. I don't charge for my holiday, am also closed for bank holidays and don't charge. I will soon be providing all parents with my closure dates for next year so they get PLENTY of notice (but I may have to take the odd day extra if things crop up that I don't know about now (think only happened once).

Childminders shouldn't charge for their own holidays, in my opinion, as they are self-employed service providers. If the service isn't provided then a charge can't be made. You don't pay your accountant holiday pay but you may pay them to do your tax return. You don't pay a solicitor holiday pay, but you pay them for the job you have asked them to do. They charge enough for the work they provide to be able to take some unpaid leave during the year and the childminder should work the same way. To swallow up 5.6 weeks over 52 weeks is not going to increase the hourly charge by much anyway.

• were paid higher rates

NCMA encourage childminders to take paid holidays. I have never had a problem with the fact I charge for holidays and bank holidays

I believe that day nurseies charge when the nursery is closed for holiday to cover staff holiday pay during the closure...is that ok?
Very interesting arguments from all but no one has explained why employees are entitled to holiday pay but not self employed c/ms?

"no one has explained why employees are entitled to holiday pay"

Because there is legislation in place providing Employees with Statutory Holiday. I don't know the history of how that came about - but a quick Google seems to indicate that it started from the 1936 Annual Holiday Bill. See Hansard - 27 November 1936 vol 318

"but not self employed c/ms?"

Because they are not employees, so do not have the right to Statutory Holiday.

Nothing to stop a childminder taking holiday and making their clients pay for that, if that's the agreement that is made when the client signs up to use the service. I suspect other self employed people factor it in to their pay rate, so get higher money whilst working and no money when not working.

The day nursery we used did not charge when they were closed over Christmas (they only closed between Xmas and New Year).

And I think it is because of the words "self employed" - builders don't get holiday pay, electricians don't either - they have to budget through all of their jobs for when they are going to be away and not earning. I am a self employed Maths tutor - I don't get paid when I am away either... or when my clients are... though they have to pay a retainer if they want to reserve the same session time for when they come back..

The professions used as reasons why CMs should not be paid holiday fees, work in no way to the day-to-day & one-to-one levels that CMs do with the children they care for, & their parents.

If as some have pointed out, we should overcompensate for the periods outside of holiday times, then I would wager that all of the parents we have on our books would prefer to have their costs spread out to include holiday periods, rather than having higher bills at so many times during the year, & then nothing during holidays.

"I believe that day nurseies charge when the nursery is closed for holiday to cover staff holiday pay during the closure...is that ok?"

Some do, some don't, the same as some childminders do and some don't. Bear in mind that most nurseries only close for a week at Christmas when many parents are on holiday anyway as at other times of year staff holidays are staggered so it is less of an issue.

Charging during holidays is less of an issue for me than charging for Bank Holidays because it does tend to average out over the year - in fact it probably works out worse for the childminder because when a parent leaves they will leave at the beginning of the summer before the CM is on holiday!

The problem with charging on bank holidays is that it impacts unfairly on part-timers. Because most bank holidays fall on a Monday, if you charge for Bank Holidays you effectively charge 10% more for Monday than any other day!

So in summary there are four good reasons to only charge when you are open:

1. It demonstrates that you are running a professional service
2. It is fair to all customers, including part-timers
3. Customers are happier
4. You may earn more overall

There is only one disadvantage: you may need to put up your 'headline' rate. If you currently charge on bank holidays, 3 extra days at Christmas to make up a week and 2 weeks summer holiday (so 21 days in all) you would need to increase your rates by 8.75% to make up for it*. I know one childminder who put her rates up from £4.00 to £4.50 one year but said she was no longer going to charge during her holidays and the parents were delighted.

Oh, there is another disadvantage - you might decide not to take a holiday and stay open for the extra two weeks earnings. Whilst you will be a few £100s better off, by the time you have been working for 18 months flat out and still 6 months to go before your next holiday you will regret it.

• if you want to take 28 days holiday, including bank holidays, the same as the statutory entitlement for employees you need to raise your rates by 12.07%

"& then nothing during holidays."

For many parents it's not nothing during your holidays though - if they can't take time off work they may have to pay 1.5x what they pay you for temporary care so they are actually paying 2.5x what they normally pay just so you can go on holiday! Try asking them if they prefer that.

"NCMA encourage childminders to take paid holidays."

Not any more they don't. They encourage childminders to take between 2 and 4 weeks of holiday, but acknowledge that full pay, half pay or no pay arrangements are between the individual childminder and his or her clients.

I take your point MrAnchovy.

All of the children we look after are either 2 or 3 days of the week, & as such, are not affected by our holidays as much as a CM that looks after a child 5 days a week (& who may choose to charge for his/her holiday).

Having said that, I believe that the parents of the children we look after appreciate the quality of care we provide for them, & as a result, consider the holiday fees we charge a small price to pay.

While it may seem absurd to some folk here, I'm guessing that this must be why so many other parents around the country are also happy to do this, & that's a testament to the efforts that CMs put into their work.

Like so many other CMs have mentioned here, we inform our parents of our holiday dates a good 10-12 months in advance, so that they are able to match their holidays as best as possible with ours.

Manaboutthehouse- It's irrelevant, childminders are self employed. Sick pay and holiday are employee perks, I've never scrimped on nanny holiday before, but they are employed, not self employed.
I've also never used a nursery that charges for when they are shut either, most din't charge between Christmas and new year.

Nurseries (a good nursery, that is) because of their size, & the volume of numbers they are able to care for, have much more flexibility regarding what they charge during the holiday periods.

CMs do not. As others have said, the arrangement is between the CM & the parent. And as I've alluded to, it would be a shame if parents looked at the care simply in terms of what they pay during a holiday period taken by the CM.

I have a week off at Xmas, and at Easter and 2 weeks during August.

However all my Mindees have supposedly term time only contracts, However as parents holiday leave doesnt always cover the whole 13 weeks of the school holidays, I do have my mindees company on a occassion.

I personally only charge for the hours they use.
I charge per child, no discount for siblings.

My T&Cs are, if they go on holiday/are ill during term time, I still get paid as Im still available, I cannot fill the space with a click of my fingers.

If Im sick and cannot work, I dont charge.

Im Self Employed so I have my own T&Cs, policies etc,
BEFORE signing the contract I do expect parents to read them and if there is anything they are unsure about to query it then, not after signing that they've read and understood!!..