How do I work put pay for a flexible nanny housekeeper pa

[JugglingChaotically]

We have found someone we'd like to offer our job to but I have no idea how to work out how to pay her. Does anyone know how to do this?
She will work 30 hours during term time doing some housekeeping, dog walking but mostly after school care for my girls. In the holidays she will be a full time nanny for 44 hours a week, 4 days.
I've agreed net pay using nannytax before and it was easy with the whole tax code available.
But the person I'd like to employ has another job. The going rate seems to be £10 net but how so I agree the gross without a tax code? I think it will be very expensive. Also, do I pay a flat rate for average hours or vary the rate between term time and holidays?
Can anyone help?

My previous nannies were all full time 55 hours, 5 days a week so no problems with other jobs and tax codes.

You agree gross based on an 810L code. Otherwise you would work on the assumption that HMRC would slap a BR code on and that would be expensive.

This is why net makes things very complicated, as you're finding out.

Your nanny may request that her tax code be split but this is up to her and not you or her other employer.

Thanks. So I assume a net of £10/hour and gross up based on 810 tax code then offer that as a gross wage in the contract.
Would you pay average pay which is the same each week or vary it with two rates between term time and hols to reflect the difference.
My concern is if we pay average and she starts before Christmas, her pay will be ahead of her hours for months.
Finally, if she doesn't work Fridays do I have to give pay or a day in lieu for eg Easter Friday?
Am finding this all very confusing so really appreciate the help!

Why do you need to offer an hourly salary? How about offering an annual salary for a set number of hours per year?

It's sort of the same thing but may help you to work out a set monthly pay, so that you are not constantly going back to the payroll company to change the pay figures - which may incur you additional payroll costs. Talk to the payroll company about what things they charge for and how quickly a change in working hours can be reflected in the pay. Ask them at what point in the month you have to tell them the hours that are being worked that month, so that the payslip can be produced for towards the middle-end of the month. Also you mention about weekly pay - do check with the payroll company about cost of doing weekly pay vs monthly, as they may charge more for processing more payroll runs.

The difficulty though with doing a set monthly pay, rather than paying for work actually done, is that you will have paid for work yet to be done, so you need to keep a good track of hours actually worked, so that if they leave, then when working out their final pay, that last month of pay may actually be quite low as it is just wrapping up what is remaining to be paid (or in a bad case owed to you).

Could you do a spreadsheet with the projected weekly working hours on it, along with the pay on a per-hour basis and a pay on a monthly basis? That may help show how much of a difference there is at varying times of the year.

Good Friday is only deductible from annual leave if it is actually a working day.
As they are not working fixed hours, you can't do holiday as days... it will need to be done in hours. So for each hour worked, they get a certain amount of holiday entitlement. I think you use the irregular working patterns method which is 12.07% of hours worked.
If they start before Christmas, they may not build up enough holiday to take off the time between Christmas and New Year (if you are not wanting them to work then), so you may need to let them take some advance holiday. So keeping track of holiday taken is vital, so you know at any given point if they have taken their entitlement, not taken enough, or taken too much. You can also give more holiday than you legally have to, so you could decide to give some hours of holiday in addition to what they accrue.

Thanks for that. Getting clearer - i think! So I could offer a set number of annual hours which is worked with different hours in term time and hols.
If working days are Monday to Thursday then only 7 public holidays rather than 8 as not Easter Friday?

Just done a rough spreadsheet and if starting in September, it isn't until around week 49 that monthly pay method starts to get near the weekly as worked method. So maybe not such a good idea.

Would having a fixed weekly pay with then overtime work? So the overtime could be added on once a month say. So keeping it monthly payroll, rather than varying it each week. So your core hours is 30 hours a week, then the extra 14 hours per week is added at the end of the month for each week in that pay period if it was worked.

Talk to the payroll company, find out how often you can tell them about pay changes without incurring a lot of admin cost, then agree with your nanny with regard to how the pay is structured.

You would need to check bank holidays against the calendar. There are various holidays that fall on changing days of the week, such as Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Years Day and special days like Queens Diamond Jubilee. Bank Holidays 2012-2015 But yes generally 7 days if working Mon-Thur in England/Wales, or 8 days if in Scotland (they have St Andrew's Day).

How does the nanny want to be paid? Weekly, Monthly, for hours actually worked, or averaged out over the year?

Looking at my rough spreadsheet, if averaging out pay over the year then the worst point comes around week 39, where their months pay packet is around £320 more than it would have been if you were paying each week.

However if they decide to leave the job and give you a month's notice of leaving, then you pay less that final month, so it sorts itself out.
If they leave without giving notice, then you will have overpaid but with luck they would give notice of their intention to leave.

Ignore me, used the wrong figures. If you were considering £10 net, then that may well be £12 gross or more... so if using £12 an hour and doing 4 weekly pay (it was a rough spreadsheet, so 4 weekly made more sense) then there comes a point around week 44 that you will have paid £670ish more than if paying weekly.

If you are using a payroll company, talk to them. That is what they are there for, to help advise you on the best way to structure the pay so that you and the nanny understand how it will work and agree to it, plus keep payroll admin costs at a reasonable amount.

Annual hours is fine as far as I am concerned. It's an agreement between you and the nanny.

If it were me. I'd do 30 hour contract year round, which is £370/week gross on an 810 code. (plus of course your employers ni). Then put in the contract that overtime is required during school holidays at £10/hour.
It also makes holidays easier as its 23 days.
If you av it out over the year you run the risk of the nanny leaving and owing you hours.

I think Karoleann's is probably the best solution. Annual hours is very messy as lots of employment legislation is based on 'normal working hours' so if it is not obvious what these are you have a problem. If the contract says normal working hours are 30 per week you don't have a problem. You can also say that the employer may require overtime to be worked.

Apart from the paying ahead problem, I have found motivational problems with an average rate. Nannies we have paid an increased rate during the holiday look forward to the extra income and really step up to the mark when the hours increase, the one time we have paid an average rate throughout the year holidays were resented as having to do more work for the same money.

I wouldn't recommend doing this without a payroll agent and DEFINITELY not on a net pay contract. £10ph net for 55 hours per week full time would be £38,450 a year: do you think that is appropriate?

Thanks for all the advice. I was worried about pay getting ahead of leave but hadn't thought of the motivational impact too. I think 30 hours standard plus overtime in the holidays at whatever £10 net grosses to with the standard tax code - £13/hr?
Holidays - 4 weeks of 4 days so 16 plus 7 stats.
Think I've got it!
I will definitely use a payroll bureau as this is all making my head spin.

Or is £12/hr gross ok for West London/Surrey?

i would say £13 gross per hr. finding someone who is flexible with diff hours an be difficult. would say £12 if set hours every week

Thanks. Sounds sensible. Will go for £13 as need flexibility.