Unregistered childminders

[Rubirosa]

I wondered what actually happens if someone is caught childminding unregistered? Is it illegal?

If I knew my neighbour was looking after a child/ren at her house and wasn't a registered childminder, and I called Ofsted, what would the outcome be for her?

I think that if she is not charging any money then it's not illegal.

(When I spoke to Ofsted about going on maternity leave, they confirmed that it was okay to carry looking after children of friends so long as this was just as a favour and was not a monetary arrangement).

What if it is for money though?

It happened years ago to someone at DDs school. The parents were given 24 hours notice to find alternative childcare. For some reason, kids over the age of 8 were allowed to stay IIRC...

I think that if she is charging money then it is illegal and she can be prosecuted. However, there is an escalation process and Ofsted would visit to assess the situation then maybe serve an enforcement notice first. Here is the relevant page on the Ofsted website (section 4 5a is about unregistered services).

If she's claiming any benefits benefit fraud agency would be very interested. We all know where it ends up with them. Ofsted would be least of her problem.

It doesn't have to be money - any kind of 'reward' counts. So for example if she was getting reciprocal childcare from someone else that would also count. (Though personally I think this is absurd - anyone remember the case of two friends a couple of years back who jobshared and looked after each other's children on their off days? Ofsted did them like a kipper.)

You can receive reciprocal childcare now just no money or vouchers or any kind of reward.

Ah, thanks for the update, wish - I always thought that was dumb.

You are wrong ZuleikaD.

Reciprocal childcare between friends was never intended to be regulated and following the case to which you refer the Minister of State for Education wrote to Ofsted doing them like a kipper as you put it.

The situation was further amended in the Childcare (Exemptions from Registration) (Amendment) Order 2010so that between friends the ONLY kind of reward that counts is money (or 'moneys worth' e.g. vouchers you can spend in a shop).

Thank you for the updates - might be worth pointing this out to people giving the Childminder Regulation Courses as I was told last September that this was still the case. (Not that it never had been!)

AFAIK Ofsted generally prefer to cooperate with the unregistered minder and support them through the registration process. They want people to be registered rather than stop minding.

If they carried on without registering they would be open to prosecution.

Oh great apot! just because someone isn't registered as a childminder doesn't mean they are automatically comitting benifit fraud

Just wanted to add to this that Ofsted have to prove that the person is actually receiving payment in order to be able to do anything about unregistered minding.

If both the childminder and the parents deny money is changing hands then it isn't an Ofsted issue.

I personally know someone who works full time as a childminder who isn't registered and has been reported 3 times in two years. On two occasions an Ofsted representive has been to see her and was unable to take any action as dispite sitting outside her house to question parents as they collected their children, all parties denied any money/vouchers/gifts changing hands.

So although it seems very unlikely that anyone would look after 3 small children every weekday plus 9 after schoolies on most days, if it can't be proven otherwise there is nothing that can be done.

The Childminder has another telephone type job in the evenings so is able to keep DWP off her case by claiming that is her only job.

VibeLover that is very frustrating for legitimate childminders in the area who have to pay out for insurance, training courses, registration fees, etc!

This lady may live to regret her actions. Ofsted or the Inland Revenue may end up with some sort of proof or she may find herself being personally liable for something which happens to a child in her care.

It's not a risk I would care to take.

Well it's not a risk I would take either, however the children are really well cared for and they absolutely love her to bits, she far excells any of the registered childminders I know locally, with energy and ideas for fun things to do with the children, so I have always felt that although what she is doing is wrong in the eyes of the law, the most important people, ie the mindees and their parents are happy so I don't feel it's anyone elses concern.

She is surprisingly well received amongst the local childminding group but I think that is because work is plentiful here at the moment with all the local minders being full , most with waiting lists. It may be a different story when there are less children to go around.

Vibe, if the cm works full time with day children and after schooled and also has an evening job then she is either a freakin lunatic or on drugs.. Or both.

I worked full time as a cm for 4 years and by 6 o'clock I was absolutely bloody knackered....

If the kids are over age 8, she doesn't have to be registered I think. I know someone who looks after some kids from our school after school for 2 hours - they're all over 8 and she is not registered (she did look into whether she would have to).

Why would you want to report this person? What's it to you? Sounds a bit vindictive to me.

Mexxo, I agree with you as a principal of not 'reporting people' but as an ex CM we have to jump through many expensive and administrative hoops to become registered and regulated. It really pissed me off to see unregistered cms with lots of kids doing the school run AND NOT PAYING TAX while I was slogging away doing it by the book.

The law is the law, if we all start breaking parts of it we don't like then where does that leave societies most vulnerable citizens, our children.

An unregistered cm has no insurance personal or for car use.

Thank god when my dd was badly injured in a crash we can claim compensation from the coach insurers, mindees with unregistered cms wouldn't have that choice.

Parents need to remember this.

thebody I accept the point about insurance, but how would you know about the personal tax arrangements of third parties? Why do you assume that everyone warning cash in hand does not declare it? You may in some cases be correct but you simply have no way of knowing that in any particular case.

The fact is that you don't need to register to childmind over-8s. It's up to the parents whether or not they feel happy without insurance etc.

All this objection on the basis of unsubstantiated assumption smells like sour grapes. And nothing wrong with that, it's human nature. But dressing resentment up as "concern" is a bit small-minded IMO.

Should have said "earning" not "warning".

Mexxo - I get what your saying about not knowing their personal tax arrangements, but I suspect that someone working illegally may not want to declare their earnings from that work?

I am concerned about unregistered minders, but you are right, I am also definitely resentful about the time, effort and money I put into my business when someone else doesn't bother.

HSMM I think you have missed my point, which is that it is NOT "illegal" to CM for over-8s without registering. Nor is it illegal to do so without insurance. Inadvisable, sure, but that is a matter for the discretion of the parents involved. In the same way, it is not "illegal" for me to let my kids' friends play on our trampoline without insurance. They might be terribly injured if there was an accident, and their parents might sue me, in which case if I didn't have insurance I would lose my house and other assets to satisfy a judgment against me. But it is up to me whether or not to get insurance to cover that risk, and up to the parents whether or not they want their kids to come round and play, and quite frankly, none of anyone else's business.

And also, I understand it's annoying to be undercut by someone not doing it by the book, but we live in a free market economy and if the competitor is not acting unlawfully, you just have to accept that there will always be some parents prepared to go cheap, just as there will be others who want the very best for their precious children.

I speak as someone who used an OFSTEf registered, expensive but wonderful CM for years. The peace of mind was worth it to me.

Childminders are required to be registered to care for small children for a good reason, just like doctors, gas fitters, nurseries, etc.

Ofsted help to ensure that care is provided on safe premises, away from dangerous animals, convicted child abusers and by suitable people who understand children's needs, are physically and mentally fit to do so and manage their behaviour appropriately to name but a few things.

It is everybody's business if someone is working without a required registration because there are plenty of people out there who will cut corners and put others at risk for the sake of earning more money.

I have to wonder what a person who works so hard to avoid Ofsted registration is trying to hide. It isn't such an awful or expensive process that it is reasonable to risk prosecution in order to avoid it.

Sorry mexxo. I was talking more about under 8s, but some of it does apply to over 8s too.