Outings and expenses, not sure what is expected.

[timeforteaagain]

We have moved area/home and have employed a new nanny for our two toddlers. The previous home was in a town with at least a tots group or activity for every day within a reasonable walk (buggy required) so the previous nanny always walked everywhere. That said she had very little inspiration for doing anything fun with the children so the eldest got a little bored and disruptive.

Our new area in also in town with a daily group/activity to go to with a walk although rather slowly unless the buggy is used! The new nanny has issues with no car at present so has use of our family car during the day. So far the children seem to go out in the car every day that the nanny has been. They don't use the local area much and I appreciate that it is the hols so groups are disrupted by this. That said we have a couple of parks round the corner. The nanny seems to take the children away out of town possibly to an area familiar to her. She has also started to request money to pay for entrance fees to zoos, theme parks etc but at £25 for her entrance plus pos the same for the eldest (yougest would be free) this is getting more than I can afford. Essentially my money covers the nanny wages and essentials with only about £100 left for me. I am quite worried about the expected expenses in addition to the petrol costs of using our car every day. Obviously our last nanny only spent on tots groups etc so was fairly cheap!!! Our new nanny is great and has lots of energy/initiative. She has initiated playdates with friends children etc which is good for our children in a new area. Am I fight to be concerned with 1) use of areas away from our home, 2) heavy use of the family car and 3) expenses seem costly.

I am new and inexperienced at employing a nanny so some helpful insight would be appreciated!

right you do need a kitty fund
you can buy season tickets to places so you can go again and again

you can find when the groups classes start again and book your kids into them

when nanny get own you have to 45p a mile for petrol when she uses for nanny stuff
but if you dont want her to use a car say so
are you on your own
cant your husband pay some of the costs . child care costs should be share if you are together

You are quite within your rights to set a budget for the kitty and tell your nanny that you expect her to seek out some low cost or free activities. Parks, woodland walks, libraries are all free and Surestart centres (if you have one near you) will have low cost activities. Things like theme parks and zoos should be agreed with you before being arranged and should be a once or twice treat during the school holidays. If you have a fairly local attraction that is fairly expensive on a one off visit have a look at the web site and see if they have an annual pass. We have a farm pass and what would cost £18 per visit costs us about £1.50 a visit with an annual pass as we go nearly every week.

Re petrol - you'll actually find it works out cheaper for her to use your car (presuming she's not really young with a sky high premium for her to be on your insurance) as when she does start using her car you will be paying up to 45p per mile for any outings. Again, you are quite within your rights to ask her to stay local, walk if the weather is good and it's not too far, and to ask her to get your approval for trips over a certain mileage and to limit long trips.

Thank you for your replies. LongJane - I have a hubs whose salary pays for all of the household expenses and groceries. My salary must cover the nanny as we don't have any further finances from his salary. I basically had to go back to work to maintain my career and in another year of re-quals my salary will be enhanced (and kiddies going to school) so just got to get through this!!.

I think a kitty would be a good idea, but what amount would be an acceptable amount? The groceries are all done by us so it would be for childrens activites or creative bits and bobs.

I think a chat is on the cards to lay down the ground rules as such so this has given me some ideas of cost saving and car rules. I like walking and would like my girls to do the same

I think some good advice above, but it may be worth gritting your teeth for the rest of the month, and then seeing what happens as the toddler groups get back into full swing in September.

If she's still keen on the longer distance/expensive trips, it may be worth being upfront, and explaining that you simply can't afford nanny fees and multiple admission fees as well.

My nanny does more 'trips' in the holidays, as she's keen to take the older school aged ones out for a treat too, but in term time there's a lot of gambolling through local parks with a hot chocolate at the end, or football, or free end of aisle box collecting in the Co-op and subsequent transformation into rockets/trains etc etc.

Where does 45p a mile come from? Just curious as to why that is what you pay a nanny? I am currently looking into getting a nanny and petrol costs haven't come up yet other then one saying she would pay her own petrol to activities.

Set a weekly budget. You could pay a set amount each week and if they wanted to do something costly, they could save up most of a weeks budget and combine it with the following weeks budget.
Have a mileage log for all trips in the car, so you get a feel for how far they are travelling.

For the weekly budget... £5-7 per day may well be sufficient. Consider how much things cost - a trip to a park / woods isn't always cost free (especially if there is an ice cream stand at the park). As you found with your previous nanny, children can get bored doing the same thing all the time. However they also quite like repeating things they found they do like - I find the children I nanny will request repeat visits to museums they have liked, parks/playgrounds.

Some parks are better than others... even your children will say that I expect. I get requests to take the children I care for to the "curlywurly slide park" - it's not our nearest park, it involves a drive, but it has a slide that goes round and round, which is not that common in our area these days.

As nbee says, annual pass for a local themepark can be very handy as if going frequently the cost per visit drops a lot. Our local themepark is designed for under 10's I would say and has great playgrounds inside it, as well as puppet show, stunt diving show (guessed where it is yet?), trains and aquarium.

Set budgets and set expectations. Give them suggestions for local places to go, it's hard to find places when you start working in a new area so you tend to go back to places you have been in the past.

How old is your eldest? They may be at an age where they want to see things like Castles, Aeroplanes, Trains, Dinosaurs... whatever takes their fancy. If you don't fancy doing those sorts of trips out at the weekend yourself, then having your nanny do it during the week saves you the trouble of doing something you don't want to do. Not saying you don't want to do those things at weekends but some parents are not keen on going round museums, but your nanny might be.

Does your nanny absorb any of the cost themselves? As a nanny I tend to work to a budget but if we exceed the budget it comes out of my money. I pay for my own themepark annual pass, parents pay for the children's. If going on a long car journey, I don't claim full mileage - only claim 1/3, which I feel represents the petrol I use. Some nannies (and parents) may feel that nannies should be claiming all costs incurred... however over the years of working for various famillies I have found that if I did that, we wouldn't do as many things, wouldn't get to explore the country we live in.

fluffygal See HMRC: Travel, look at first 10,000 business miles, cars/vans 2011/12. You don't have to pay 45p per mile but the cost of running a car is very high and 45p per mile may not cover the costs involved (once you add in fuel, insurance, servicing, mot, roadtax, cost of vehicle, children's carseats).

I track fuel I use and in 2008 it cost me an average of 10p per mile for fuel. In 2012 it's now averaging around 13p per mile. So the fuel part is quite small, it's the cost of the vehicle, insurance and servicing which are the big costs I feel.

If it helps with your budgeting, I do quite a lot of work miles. My typical annual claim is around 3000 miles - we walked to school/nursery most of the time, so that figure does not include school/nursery run.

fluffygal
car cost fortune to run and look after and what happen if the car wont work one morning how will nanny get to get work and she need the car for school run
nanny need to have good car as they are taking your kids in them
do you want your kids in a break down a lot ( meaning you cant go to work or are late for work) rust bucket that nanny does ask for money or a well maintenance car that cost you 45p a mile .
nick is kind to his employers as he likes to be out and about and only has his own bill to pay

if he had partner and a child of his own he might need every penny himself

just had a quick thought

kitty needs cover things like coffee/drinks as this where the nice toilets are

nick is kind to his employers as he likes to be out and about and only has his own bill to pay
if he had partner and a child of his own he might need every penny himself

Very true Longjane, the nannies personal circumstances may well have impact on how they feel about this sort of thing. I like to be out and about, I don't like being stuck indoors or confined to the garden.

Set a kitty amount and nanny can decide how to spend it but yes in holidays 'extra' activities may happen

M&t are great but older ones often get bored of them

Nannynick is the only nanny I know who will charge less mileage so he can go out and about

45p covers wear and tear and mot/servicing - 100 miles £45 and tbh in a full time job can easily be done in a week

• one day I used to do 80 miles by the time I did nursery and school run - tumbletots - back to pick up nursery - back to older tumbletots - back for school pick up - tennis and gym after school and then station to pick up mb and back home

I personally won't use my car and have always had a nanny car during working hours but friends who do sometimes have boss's that moan about the mileage costs but why should the nanny be out of pocket?

Ah ok, see I work as a community carer, drive my car all day and don't get mileage, my company will pay 22p a mile if going out of area but that is all. I just wondered why 45p as it is extortionate. I just consider that having a car that works is the employees responsibility but that is because that's how it works in my line of work.

Longjane- do you mean the kitty needs to pay for the nanny's coffee if they go out? I can never afford a drink when I take my kids anywhere, we have to take drinks with us.

yes longjane does mean that fluffy

picnics and days out i will take drinks with us, but if for any reason we dont have drinks on us then yes i will get a diet coke/cuppa etc out of the kitty

Longjane- Sorry, posting again! I drive a rust bucket as that's all we can afford, we will have our rustbucket 13 year old car available for the nanny to drive but will she then complain and want a newer car to drive? I am getting worried now about the cost as we are already going to pay the nanny 1.5 times what I earn :-( all these extra costs are going to break us, we can't afford a new car.

Really blond? I can never ever do that when we take the kids out, we just don't have that kind of spare cash. It would mean the kids can't go out then I guess.

Fluffygal - it's also usual practice for the employer to pay for the nanny's meals when she's eating with her charges - sandwiches or whatver at lunchtime are made from out of the employer's fridge; if out and about in a non-picnic type place then the employer pays for the nanny's food.

not at all on both counts car and drinks

i like a car but dont care what care as long as obv roadworthy - a friend of mine will turn down jobs if not the right 'type' of car - she likes 4 by 4 and posh cars - once i had an astra and she said no way would she accpt a job with that car

drinks - the nanny will just be organised and take drinks, but some places dont allow other drinks/foods like swimming pools/soft play areas etc

and i said
the kids some time need the loo
and you dont what a five year( or older) old boy going to public loo on his own but in cafe he can safely can

or you need to go some where if is raining
so you buy a drink
look a weather we had this summer

a rust bucket car is fine if you are happy for kids to be in it

Even packed lunch supplies cost, home baking (cakes for example) can cost more than buying 'value range' ready made cakes then adding some icing.

I have posted cost estimates in the past and getting accurate figures for the 'other costs' is tricky. It will vary from family to family. Anyone want to say how much they feel it costs for these 'other costs' - things like food/drink, gas/electric, typical annual mileage?

fluffy = set some rules. If you're not happy for the nanny to take the children to Costa for a babyccino and for nanny to have a coffee, say so - I have. Ours was "taking them for a treat" or using costa as a venue to fill half an hour between local activities. IMO it's not much of a treat for the children but the nannies like to sit and natter in there. Have suggested that the library a few doors down is a better venue to kill time in if necessary.

Also might be worth pointing out on the car mileage that journeys should be multipurpose - I get q annoyed at a £4 petrol charge to pick up bread when kthey've driven past the same shop on another £4 journey earlier in the day.

I think in the school holidays our expenses for two plus nanny have been running at about £70 / week adn that doesn't include the local theme park passes (at £75 each / year) or the sports club they've done for a few weeks. ARGH. Term time is going to be monstrous because DD2 is starting the same school 4 miles away but has an earlier pick up time. I'll try & do school drop off to minimise mad petrol costs on 24 miles / day and will hopefully get the elder one dropped home once or twice a week. Nanny Nick - if you have any bright ideas on this one let me know... (I need my own car to get to work)

Bobbi - what are the timings involved and what is in local area, library, park etc. Send me a PM, email or post here.

bobbie yes the library is better place for time killer but it has no toilets and the kids cant get a drink or snack there which they might need

and dont forget the reason why they have driven pass the shop is that some one might have needed the loo or some food or a young child might asleep

as for the term time
this why need cafe for the loo and drink for younger child if raining but is there a park near by that is where i would go with a drink and snack bought from home
does the school do after school the little one can go till older on get out you wont be the only is this situation

For goodness sake, talk to the nanny now, not just wait and be nervous about expenses. Have a frank conversation about how much you can afford and specify what you are happy to pay for. For example I am happy to pay for nanny's coffee and ice cream a couple of times a week if kids also having one, but not for regular lunches out or for bottled mineral water (she should take packed lunches and water bottles from home).

Also don't assume anything and set out your preferences for activities clearly. My nanny recently spent £30 on one day going to the zoo which I was fine with, and then spent £25 at the cinema the next day which I wasn't happy with, because the kids had already been to the cinema the week before and because I think kids should be out playing when the weather permits. She hadn't known about my preferences, so I explained it to her clearly and she's fine with it. I also asked, in future, not to surprise me with large expenses afterwards - she should try and give me notice of expensive outings with rough idea of cost, so I can be prepared, financially and mentally.

I shall get round to having that chat with our nanny. The nanny loves being outdoors and I think the children benefit too. That said we just cannot stretch to lots of expensive entrance fees currently as it means that when we are together as a family we cannot take the children anywhere with what little we have. I guess we budgeted more for the nannies salary than for extra expenses (ie theme parks for 2 and 3 yr olds). That said she drives around in our 'new' car lol. I would think that it is a challenge for a nanny to find cost friendly outdoors fun as much as it is for us. This is just a reflection of the current financial climate that we all have to bare the brunt of. Maybe we shall be suggesting a kitty that she can accumulate for days out as necessary. I should have said that she works part-time ie mon, tues and wed so will have to work out what kitty money is appropriate. NB car petrol is not included in kitty expenses.