is this acceptable nanny behaviour?

[stella1w]

This is kind of in between an AIBU and a WWYD. I posted a while back because my new nanny was wanting to take the kids to playdates and parks near her house and I wanted my kids not to be in the car so much and to stay local and play with their friends. I felt that my nanny was not accepting the fact she was working for a new family in a new area and really needed to start to settle down in the area where we actually live, and not plan activities round near where she lives.

She also wanted to go on quite lengthy big ticket day trips.

The advice at the time was to give her say one day a week to do her thing and to make sure I had set up local activities for the rest. So I did that, and it worked quite well.

I realised that her requests to go further afield tailed off when her family were out of town. So I think a big part of her request was that she wants to meet up with her family (mum, dad and 9 yo sister). She often tells me she has "bumped into" her family which is not really possible as they live quite a way away, so she has been arranging to meet them, but not being up front about it.

I don't have anything against her family per se but I am uncomfortable with a feeling that as someone said on a similar thread about a nanny wanting to meet up with her dp during work hours that the nanny's focus was not where it should be.

Today turned out to be a classic illustration of the issue. I did not plan anything for her as I wanted her to have some freedom. I got a text from her later in the morning asking if she could take the kids to a farm (20 mile round trip). I said fine. When I got back she casually mentioned that she had stopped off at her house on the way back to take her dog for a walk in the park.

I said that I had no problem in principle with that but she needed to let me know in advance if she was going to go to her house and walk the dog during working hours.

My dd later told me that my nanny's sister had also been at the park without their mother, so therefore the nanny had been the responsible adult for my two and her own sister. Which to me is babysitting. And she hadn't let me know about it.

In her settling in period, I had explicitly told her that I had not been happy with a previous nanny who had taken her young brother out with my two without checking.

As my nanny is good in other ways, and as I want her to be happy, I want to strike the right balance between being flexible and her not being lonely etc and feeling like her priorities are a bit off..

So AIBU? and WWYD?

I feel that you are right to want to find a balance. Taking a dog for a walk is something your children can enjoy and also help them not fear all dogs - presuming you don't want them to fear all dogs.

Your nanny taking care of your children, the dog, and then also her [the nannies, not the dogs] younger sister isn't on in my view. She's being paid to do a job which does not involve caring for her sister.

I think that given that you had said about your previous nanny, that you repeat that again making it clear that you do not expect her to be responsible for your children and her sister. I wonder if there is any influence from her mum... is your nanny perhaps being told to do things by her mum, such as walk the dog and supervise your sister at the park.

I would not be happy with this at all. I would like to think (and our nanny tells me) that I am a generous and flexible employer, but I would not be at all happy about her basically not trying to embrace the area she is working in and incurring expense and travel time in very frequently taking my DC to areas further afield.

And I would not be at all happy walking her dog during working hours without asking in advance if this was ok. I'm sure it might be nice for your DC to walk the dog with her now and again. But it is unprofessional and unacceptable for her to take time out of her working day, when she is being paid, to serve her own needs without asking first.

Sounds to me as if she is a bit immature (how old is she?) and reluctant to listen to your concerns and act on them.

Have you raised this more formally with her? I understand that you think she is a good nanny in other ways. I have, in the past, thought along the lines 'as long as the DC are happy with the nanny, that's all that matters. But I really do think that a nanny has to be a good fit for you all as a family. If she's not listening to what you say, this arrangement is unlikely, imo, to work out well for you all.

I am a nanny and I think her behaviour is unacceptable. I am currently in a position where I have no freedom/ trust from my employer but I don't think you are like my employer. Your children should be the focus of your nanny's attention and she should not be using work time as an opportunity for socialising, expect in exceptional circumstances which have been discussed with you beforehand.
If I were you, I would tell her this. It's early days so it's better to straighten this out now. Good luck!

As a nanny employer I would not be happy about the deceit

She's not being honest and that's a deal breaker IMO

And I agree with nanny nick- the dog walking could be enjoyable. I love my pets and speak of them so the children often ask about them. If my family said it was okay, I might introduce my pets to the children but not without your prior consent.

thanks for the feedback.. I have kind of gently mentioned that I want the kids to stay local, see their friends etc. But I feel it's getting out of hand (eg. she recently asked if she could have her previous employer's two kids for the morning at my house as her previous employer had a childcare issue/family emergency - I said yes, to be understanding, but they ended up not coming round for another reason)
I really am not comfortable with my kids fitting round her either socialising with her sister and her parents or in fact babysitting her sister.
I have delayed drafting a contract as I wanted to work out how prescriptive I needed to be and it seems er.. I need to be very prescriptive..
Personally, I need to know where my children are - partly for emotional reasons of feeling I can imagine what they are doing and also for practical reasons. If the worst happened, I would need to have an idea of where they are.
She is 22, btw, and seems generally mature and sensible.. it's only her second job and her first one was part time so maybe she is finding it hard to adjust to a fulltime role...

I had this with my last nanny. She was taking my 15 month to her home and to parks around there to meet up with her boyfriend. Because he was so little he couldn't tell me where he had been.

I only discovered this when I was driving between my workplaces and I saw her car going off in a strange direction on the road out of the city. I got a bit of a shock as she had not mentioned going anywhere that day.

When I got home I asked how the day had been and she didn't mention going out of town, I had to question her and at first she denied it. Eventually the truth came out and I wasn't happy.

The problem with this is that the people your nanny sees have not been CRB checked, you have NO IDEA who they are. They might be nice or they might not be.It's not safe and that is why you can't accept this sort of thing.

My old nanny moved to China to become an English teacher so we parted company soon after this incident which was probably fpr the best.

As she's relatively inexperienced in terms of jobs, but is otherwise solid and sensible, thenm it is porbably worth sitting down with her and talking through explicitly what your needs/requirements are. It is probably a lack of understanding rather than anything else - remember you are the employer and need to let her know what your boundaries are.

I agree with explaining boundaries.. the trouble is that I wanted to check here if IWBU...
And also some things to me like - er, not walking your dog during working hours seem so obvious, it didn't occur to me to prohibit it..

there's also a practical issue of when to have the review/chat etc. as I work fulltime and the kids are there at handovers at the start and end of the day..

In about four weeks I have a day off work when I could sit her down (and somehow get the kids elsewhere) but that now seems a bit far off..

Can you leave work early/ start late one day and call on a family member to help? Trip to the park with the kids? It' important for you both to make time to discuss this as I too feel four weeks is too long to wait.
I imagine it's her inexperience given she's 22 but I also believe in common sense. If she wants to make this a career, she should realise this is not professional.
I don't think you can expect to have her run by every plan but I find a brief message saying something along the lines of 'heading to hyde park' is always appreciated by my employers. They are not my children and while I like the freedom to do what I feel would benefit the children, she's taking it way too far (and it's not benefiting your children).
You are definitely right to tackle this now.

Yes, I think I will try that...

How old are your children? Are they able to explain/describe their day to you? If so, how did they feel about walking the dog? I think there is a huge difference between the nanny walking the dog because she needs to and the nanny walking the dog because she knows your children will really enjoy it.

It's important to remember that she told you that they'd walked the dog, which makes it a completely different situation to the one Framey describes. She should definitely have asked you before they did it, but tbh I can see how this sort of thing would happen in the moment.

I think you need to tell her really clearly that you need to know where they are and what they're doing. I'd also make a point of asking her every morning 'what do you have planned for today?'. Do you have a nanny diary? If not, get one and ask her to plan/put in the diary what they'll be doing for the next few days/week. That will give you a chance to veto anything you don't want them doing.

Yes, dc1 rising five... We have a nanny diary and i also extended her day by 15 mins to improve communication. I will stress that she needs to lmk in advance. Sometimes her plans change midmoning and i suspect it,s cos she gets a call from a nanny friend suggesting something else. I also call her at lunchtime so she has a chance then to discuss plans. I think i didn,t want to seem controlling but i am not comfortable with how things are.

Diarys are fine but plans can change ie plan to see friend but then find out they've been sick overnight - obv we won't see them and will so something different

Or plan to have afternoon in but turns sunny so go to the park etc

Walking a dog can be fun and good to get your dc to not fear dogs but I'm
Assuming she's driving 20mins + to go back home

Is her dog home alone all week? Maybe another reason why keeps going home - ESP of 5yr normally at school and only has younger sibling

The looking after sister is not acceptable unless she asked
Beforehand tho I would say a bit of flexibility is good - is it such a bad thing they play every now and again at a park?

School holidays can be lonely in a New area and often structured things like m&t and tumbletots stop so harder to meet new people

Yes you need to have a chat and before 4 weeks - tbh I wouldn't be happy my day extends by 15mins so we can have a chat

It just doesn't sound like she's settling. Am curious how she came to you/why she left her previous employers.

You need to be diplomatic, of course, but I would be honest with her and ask her outright whether she feels she will be able to settle in the area because you have concerns about it. You could do this in the context of: when September starts and I have scheduled loads of local activities the children's weekly activities resume, it will not be possible to make day trips out of the area on a regular basis. How will she cope/how does she feel about this.

Also say that while dog walking is fun, does she have someone who can take on the dog walking during the day for her or not because it won't be possible for her to go home every day.

I would also say the arrangement with her sister 'sounds a bit like babysitting to me' and see what she says.

I'm sure there are others that will disagree with me, but there is little point in not being honest - tactful, but honest- about your feelings.

Our first nanny had her daughter over, her husband over, the son in law to be over (I came home to a housefull on several occasions.) Her daughter and later the daughter's child came to work with her. I am sure she left my DD with her daughter alone on several occasions while she ran an errand. On and on. My case is extreme but believe it or not I kind of told myself at the time it was no big deal as "DD was safe" (also DH didn't want conflict )and then it became clear that, like Mr A said on the other thread, she was conducting her family life during working hours.

I think your nanny probably is just a bit immature and doesn't grasp that her behaviour is unprofessional in the sense that she isn't respecting your priorities. You are entitled to tell her this. It may well just be a teething issue and she is a bit nervous about coping without having people around her she knows but I would address it now.

I think you need a friendly but direct conversation with this nanny PRONTO. I would arrange o take her to dinner after work. Technically this would be after hours and if she's not happy, you should offer o go home early. But I've always found my nannies are quite happy to be taken out to dinner and may have questions/concerns of their own.

Mind if I ask how much she racking up in expenses? I would probably get a handle on that by giving her a set amount each month. And she can spend as she lies. I would certainly not be paying mileage for her to go bsit her sister.

I have three children (two school age) and my nanny/au pair goes through the month on £100. I don't ask where she spends it. But, I don't top it up for unexpected day trips either. She also has a membership to a nice gym where there is no end of fun and entertainment for the kids. So I don't think she really needs much extra cash. I all pay for her mobile phone and a bus pass.

I would never ask a nanny to contact me before going somewhere in the day. I think the fact you are seeking this information is a sign that you don't trust her. And I think if you don't fix this relationship very soon it is headed to a bad place. You can't have a nanny you don't trust. It's just not workable.