Potential Spanish nanny - some questions!

[AspirantPirate]

Picking the collective mumsnet brain again!

A bit of background: we are looking for a nanny for the first time as I am starting full-time work (after 9 years as a SAHM). I will be a trainee solicitor. We have decided on a nanny for our 3 (school age) sons because we really need someone to care for them until around 7-7.30pm. We cannot have an au pair because we do not have enough room at home.

Having been interviewing people this week we have realised that prospective nanny's expectations as to salary are higher than we had expected (they are quoting net rather than gross hourly rate). We can stretch to it if we have to but it would mean that for the duration of my two year training contract I will be using up my entire salary to cover the cost of the nanny (c'est la vie - I have to do it to qualify as a solicitor, after which my salary will be much higher).

However, this morning we interviewed a young Spanish woman who has moved over here for the next two years to improve her English. She was perfect for us, she has bags of experience with school-age kids (though no nannying experience) and we really 'clicked' with her. And, without wanting to sound cynical, her salary expectations were much lower. She is not here to earn her fortune, but to improve her English, and is currently working for minimum wage in a fast food restaurant.

As I mentioned, I will be working as a solicitor and my husband is also a solicitor. It is essential for our careers that we employ someone fairly and properly. The last thing we want or need is to be accused of unfairness and exploitation, or for having made any mistakes with tax, employer's liability etc. So, questions:

1. Is it fair to offer her the lowest 'going rate' for nannies in our area, given that she has no previous nannying experience? This would be about £8 an hour gross, giving her an increase of about 30% on her current income. We absolutely do not want to be ripping her off, but have to be realistic about what is comfortably affordable for us. Paying at this rate would mean that I would have enough left over from my salary to start paying off my (large) study loan without us actually making a loss from me being at work.
2. Are there any extra issues attached to employing someone who is not a UK national? She is from within the EU and so would not need any permit, but would there be any difference in tax code, or employer's liability insurance, or the nanny's public liability insurance? Or anything else that we haven't even thought of? We are trying to gauge the real cost to us of employing her before we actually make an offer.

Sorry - that was long! Thanks in advance for any advice!

Also just wanted to add: why do you consider it "your" salary that will pay the nanny? Why do you not consider "our joint family income will be X and we will pay the nanny out of that"?

I have a friend from law school who had a baby during her TC. When she went back from mat. leave her salary as a 2nd year trainee was £31k and all-in the cost of the nanny was £34k (in London, live-out). My friend wanted to qualify and work; her husband was supportive. The fact that her earnings were not enough to cover the nanny was irrelevant. They looked at it as: together we earn £200k, so the nanny is easily affordable.

I think it is so unfair that so many people take the view that if one partner's salary doesn't match or beat the cost of childcare then that partner should give up work ad stay at home. The years that children need childcare constitute a relatively short portion of a career these days, so why not take the long view that what you are losing financially in the short term will be more than made up for in the long term gain of having a career once the DCs have grown up?

I suppose this argument could struggle a bit where the higher earner is earning absolutely ££££££ and the other one would prefer to be at home than to work, but that is a different argument really.

Peppin, thank you. Yes, I am very much looking forward to it and the firm I will be with have a good reputation as having that elusive work / life balance so I am confident that when I am settled they will be reasonably accommodating with regards to child related issues.

As for joint income, I absolutely take your point and if it came to it, yes, my husband would "subsidise" my career in the short term in order for me to qualify. The reality is, though, in our situation, there isn't anything spare in the pot. We will not be on a joint income of £200k! If childcare costs more than my net income, there will need to be significant belt-tightening. Which isn't to say that we couldn't / wouldn't do it of it were necessary, but it would be last-resort.

I'm about 20mins from Bristol and I think £8 an hour is a perfectly acceptable wage for an inexperienced/unqualified nanny. Nannies may have been earning £10nett an hour a few years back but there are very, very few of those jobs available now. I'm qualified and have 20yrs experience as a nanny and I'd be asking £9 gross an hour but I'd want to bring my 20mth old DD with me. If I put her into nursery I'd be asking for a bit more.

If she 'fits' your family and you are both happy then that's the important thing. Mutual respect counts for a lot.

I don't get the whole 'joint family income' argument sometimes. My DP's wages cover the bills with very little to spare. If my salary doesn't cover two lots of childcare then there's no point in me working. Depressing but true!

Ebb thank you, that is reassuring! And yes, I am the same with the joint income argument. I totally agree in principle that both parents are equally responsible for meeting the cost of childcare, but if the cost of childcare is more than one of the parents earns then, in practice, it odesn't make much sense for that parent to work!

It is different, however, if working at a loss will lead to a long-term financial gain for the family. In our case, my completing this two year training contract will mean that our family income will grow significantly in the future, so if I absolutely had to work at a loss for the next two years then it would still be worth it in the long term, as my salary will increase significantly after that.

Just a quick post to thank you all again for the help - we seem to have bagged our nanny She's happy, we're happy, the kids are happy..... massive relief! Now I can actually begin to look forward to the new job

I would agree that the hourly rate seems fair for someone with no qualifications or experience. However, with three children to look after she potentially could move on quite quickly to another family on a higher hourly rate. You should try to remove as much ambiguity as possible in terms of your mutual expectations of the job so that you don't end up with gripes on both sides. Paying close to the bottom of the market will backfire very quickly if she feels that she is being taken advantage of. I'm sure you would agree that as a SAHM, looking after 3 kids and a home is damn hard work.

The holidays (20 days, paid BH's and extra time off at Christmas) should be a nice incentive but I would seriously consider writing a fairly detailed job description so that you both understand what is expected for the £8ph. You won't want to come home to a bombsite every evening and three kids waiting on dinner, but equally £8 is not going to cover everything you currently do at home as a SAHM. Aside from the nanny, you may need to factor in the cost of a cleaner or discuss a couple of mornings a week to clean the house and do the ironing if she is interested in the extra work.

In particular I would also recommend that you discuss what your arrangements are for extra working hours. As a trainee, your work life balance may be tricky occasionally and you will need to know that she won't be standing at the door tapping her watch if you get stuck at work on short notice.

I would suggest that you discuss Peppin's points with your husband and work out in advance what you will do to incentivise her to stay (assuming it all works out) and what the review point on her salary/benefits & duties will be and that she knows when that date will be.

Finally, regardless of the fact that she won't be living with you and everything I have said above, you need to recognise that she will become part of the family - attend birthday parties, receive gifts and will have an opinion. In that way it's really useful to set out your expectations in writing as it is really difficult to have conversations about poor performance with someone who works in your home and looks after your kids.

Glad you're happy Pirate. I hope it all works out.

lacroix I doubt she would be able to move on quickly to a higher paid position - I have seen ads for experienced, qualified, Ofsted-registered nannies for £9-£10 gross recently, and there are plenty of nannies looking for work.

Hi Rubirosa - my point around moving on quickly was mostly in regard to duties. The OP said that she has 3 school age children so its possible that she would like a reasonable level of household duties carried out in addition to the basic childcare provision. If the nanny can move onto an equivalent salary for less work or more ££ , then its possible that she will take the opportunity if it's presented to her. Most people will stay put if they feel valued, it's not always about cash. In any job people get hacked off if they feel taken advantage of, something the OP is very keen to prevent. Even paying a top rate salary, it's quite easy to create resentment if you are constantly 30 mins late for example. Equally, if you've been late home occasionally, you don't expect your nanny to give you a bill at the end of the month for every 15 mins accrued. It's just about boundaries that's all. I don't know if the salary is competitive locally, it sounds as though it is in which case the OP shouldn't have any worries that her nanny will disappear at the first opportunity.