Childcare on Domestic Premises

[luckylou]

My co-childminder and I are considering registering as childcarers on domestic premises - the registration you must have if more than three people are caring for children at any one time.

Ofsted has an information sheet, but it isn't clear (at least to me) whether

1. the adult/child ratios are the same as for childminding

1. there is a square footage regulation

Can anyone help?

And if anyone operates, or has operated, as CCODP is there any advice or information you think is important to anyone considering this?

I only go up to three adults but Katymac has registered as codp there are some extra things like no less than two adults to take into account and ratios change I believe it is 1:4 at age 2 and 1:3 under two 1:8 at age three but not sure if you would need separate areas for under & over 2's like a nursery

Ofsted are so hopeless-hard to understand, disorganized, tell you different & wrong info every time. National Childminders Association is a really useful resource for questions like this. www.ncma.org.uk

I am working as a Spanish and English Childminder in Hammersmith (Brook Green area) for French,English and Spanish Families at the moment and in 6 years that i have been managing the business, caring and teaching children above all the Principles of live, i have had such a wonderful time talking to Ofsted inspectors and learning from them all so much that my views about being afraid of Ofsted inspections changed with positives and greater experiences for my future to come. I am still Caring and Teaching children in Hammersmith working as a Childminder and i still love what i do,and i still think this is essential to help children to succeed. A BA(hons)Education Teacher.

I am working as a Spanish and English Childminder in Hammersmith (Brook Green area) for French,English and Spanish Families at the moment and in 6 years that i have been managing the business, caring and teaching children above all the Principles of live, i have had such a wonderful time talking to Ofsted inspectors and learning from them all so much that my views about being afraid of Ofsted inspections changed with positives and greater experiences for my future to come. I am still Caring and Teaching children in Hammersmith working as a Childminder and i still love what i do,and i still think this is essential to help children to succeed. A BA(hons)Education Teacher.

Thanks for your answers LesbianMummy1 and Victoria. I suppose not that many people have taken up this option; it's quite difficult to find information.

LesbianMummy, do all three of you work at the same time? How many children do you mind when you do, and was it easy to get permission from ofsted to do this? If we decide against trying for CODP, we may go for employing one assistant with a view to increasing numbers.

Little puzzled by your answer, Vane - but glad your loving what you do.

Bit surprised you say that Victoria2002

this appears to be NCMAs sole entry on CDP & it isn't up to much when you ring and ask either

CDP has issues with qualifications and toilets primarily plus ratios if you have school age children - PM me & we can chat properly if you want

I suppose not that many people have taken up this option; it's quite difficult to find information.

That's an understatement - according to Ofsted's published statistics, there were only 140 settings registered for Childcare on Domestic Premises in the whole of England in March 2012 (compared to over 57,000 childminders and nearly 30,000 providers of Childcare on Non-domestic Premises).

Ofsted don't have any detailed information as far as I can see, but their job is only to enforce the standards, it is the Department for Education that set the standards; for pre-schoolers the requirements are all in the Statutory Framework for the Early Years Foundation Stage (this is the current, 2008, version; a new one comes in September 2012).

The space standards are the same for any EYFS setting (no change in Sep 2012):
? Children under two years: 3.5 m2 per child.
? Two year olds: 2.5 m2 per child.
? Children aged three to five years: 2.3 m2 per child.

Toilets are a pain tho' for every 10 children over 2 you need a separate loo plus a separate one for adults

Imagine I'm 1 in 140!

Them's good odds

Don't forget the qualifications thing, it's very important

The problem with ratios is you can use the nursery ratios but if you have after school children they must have thier own person

So if you have 10 children (under 5) 1:3 under 2, 1:3 under 2 & 1:4 2-3 plus 5 school age you need 4 people

but if you ave 9 children (under 5) you can also have 9 school age

Interesting you mention toilets KatyMac, the Framwork says (my highlights):

There should be at least one toilet and one hand basin for every ten children over the age of two. Except in childminding settings, there should normally be separate toilet facilities for adults.

The word "should" (and even more so "should normally") is weaker than the word "must", and means that if there is a good reason why the standard cannot be complied with, it can be relaxed.

Note that in the 2012 Standards it has been tightened a bit:
"Providers must ensure there is an adequate number of toilets and hand basins available (usually one toilet and one hand basin for every ten children over the age of two).", although if you can prove that the number you have is 'adequate' you should still be able to argue the point if you have say a dozen children and only one toilet.

Well i argued that school children could use the adult loo despite there being chemicals/cat food in there & they said NO - no way

So I said, if I have more than 10 childminded children I would clear the adult loo of stuff; it hasn't happened yet

Oh I have an email to send you, sorry Luckyloo

Hi luckylou, Yes we work in various combinations e.g.

1 childminder
2 childminders
1 childminder & 1 assistant
2 childminders & 1 assistant
1 childminder & 2 assistants

Permission was easy however make sure you check certificate carefully I had to get it corrected six times. We also had two premises registered and different overall numbers at both as one house is bigger than the other.

At my house we can have 8 children under 8 and when we are in a three then we can have all 8 as under 5. At the other house it is 12 under 8, 9 can be under 5 if we want.

One thing I would recommend is a fire log that shows who is present and when so you can clearly see who is there in an emergency and which adults are present when.

Ratios are as childminding so
1 under 1
3 in total early years
6 under 8's

2 adults present
2 under 1
6 early years
12 under 8's

3 adults present
3 under 1
9 early years
18 under 8's (If space allowed)

I kept my 2 under 1 registration but we decided not to exceed 3 under 1 as the space required would restrict the over 1's.

Because we could not say what ages all children would be we were told to calculate under 1's at 3.5m2 and all others at 2.5m2.

Having three assistants registered ensured we have sickness cover etc but if there are more than 3 adults working at any time you have to be codp.

Many thanks KatyMac and Mr A - that's all very helpful. Seems like a bit of a minefield!

Thanks LesbianMummy for giving such a detailed reply on working with assistants

KatyMac, I have sent you a PM