CM Club - Need help identifying if mindee could have SN (long!)

[surfandturf]

Hi all,

I've been minding now for almost a year and for the most part I'm really enjoying it. One of my mindees turned 2 in March and I'm a little concerned about some if his behaviour. When I first met him last August he was 'full on' and into everything but I like a challenge so I took him on. Over the past couple of months I have found him increasingly difficult to deal with and out of all the children I care for he is by far the most trying and tiring!

There are a few things which are concerning me:

1. He is a climber - he's into everything and no matter where I hide things out of his way he will get to them! When I explain that he can't play with a certain object because it is dangerous / Surf's precious things he won't look at me and within a few minutes he's trying to get it again.
2. He's a bolter - I use reigns on him as he would bolt wherever we go. Last week I took him to a meadow as I wanted him to experience some freedom in a safe environment. However, he bolted and when I shouted stop he just kept going. I had to drop everything and abandon pram to sprint to catch him so he got put in the pram as a concequence. I know he understands the word 'stop' as we play a game at playgroup which incorporates stop and go and he does it without any problems there.
3. He doesn't have much of a concentration span. He darts from one thing to another. Gets all the toys / books out then is on to the next thing - usually getting into mischief!
4. He is becoming more and more physical with the other mindees. More often than not I don't think he means to hurt anyone but he has started trying to climb on some of the younger ones backs when they are crawling. He has also started using objects to hit with. I have had to confiscate so many toys which many of the other children enjoy playing with. The last straw last week was when I caught him about to drop a little stool onto the head of one of the babies I caught him just in time but I would be mortified if I'd have had to try and explain that one!
5. I have tried getting down to his level to speak to him about his behaviour and explain the consequences but he refuses to look at me when I speak to him. After chatting with mum we decided to try and give him 'time out' by placing him in the travel cot for a couple of minutes together with a little chat about why his behaviour is not acceptable but this having no effect whatsoever either.
6. All of the above sound like most 2 year olds I know but the thing which really concerns me about SN is that he doesn't seem to be able to control his emotions very well. When mum comes to collect him he doesn't know whether to laugh or cry and tends to do a bit of both whilst kicking / lashing out all at the same time.

I am physically and mentally drained and exhausted by it all. I am completely full and many of my other mindees are of a similar age and none of them are anywhere near as demanding as him. He is the mindee I have most often (4 days a week) and it's really starting to get me down. Other than that he is a really loving, cute little boy and I like the family. If there is something underlying which would explain his behaviour I think I would find it easier to deal with and could look for support for both me and his family.

Be honest - Am I being a wuss and have just been lucky with the other mindees who are practically angels in comparison or am I right to have concerns? Any advice from you lovely ladies (and men) would be much appreciated! Thanks

Sounds like both my boys when they were 2. One of the only times I logged on to our nursery webcam I saw DS1 about to lamp someone with a spade!

I think most two years olds are similar with their emotions too - everything is very black or white - they're either estatically happy or crying hysterically.

It must be difficult as a childminder to have so may the same age. I sometimes look after my friends two children in school holidays (as a favour) and I remember when they were 2 and 4 (so 2 x 2 year olds and 2 x 4 year olds), it was utterly exhausting! Oddly enough even with my baby too now (so 1 x 12months 1 x 3 years, 2 x just 4, one 5 and one 6) its os much easier.

We used to have to "exercise" the boys so I'd always go to the park for an hour first thing. I also found playgroups didn't really work as they were too boisterious although both were okay with structured activites like gymboree.

I also don't think my friends with boys were that different either - maybe you've just been very lucky with previous mindees.

DS1 is very calm and sweet now, DS2 is getting there, no SN with neither of them.

Maybe just a long run around the park first thing will tire him out enough to make your day a bit more manageable.

I would agree that what you have said sounds like an average 2yr old boy. However, you must have reason to feel something isn't quite right? Does he have older siblings to explain the rough play and behaviour?

I don't think any of this sounds unusual, two yr olds are notoriously impulsive

Your precious things could be put out of sight/locked cupboard

Wrt climbing - have you a slide/gym type thing here to satisfy his need to climb? I'll find a blog about risk taking in a bit for you, here it is

wrt concentration, what do your obs tell you about where his interests lie? eg he likes emptying the book cupboard, provide baskets/bags to extend?

Do an obs with an A4 pad on your lap, with play areas marked eg top left corner cars, top right corner books, middle musical instruments, bottom left dolls, bottom right wooden blocks (all hypothetical areas of interest obvs) and then watch him, for perhaps half an hour. Draw arrows .......> as he moves from area to area - this will highlight where he returns to most. and then you can think about extending that area of interest

And yes, lots and lots of outdoor stuff, room to run, and jump, and move freely

Hi - thanks for your replies and advice.

Karoleann - we go to playgroups every morning with the hope that it will help to tire him out and nap in the afternoon - but he no longer naps which is partly why I am feeling it more.

Big paws - he doesn't have any siblings.

Random numbers - I have a climbing frame / slide type thing in my garden and he loves running round at playgroup. Mainly plays with ride ons and the slide there too so very active. He does like painting / colouring so we try to do some of this each day to give him some calm time too. He seems to be meeting all of his developmental milestones.

He doesn't seem to have any concept of space though. Ie. he walks over / through things rather than around them - so many of my toys get broken because he stands on them and he pushes / barges past people rather than walking around them. Not ideal when babies / younger children are playing / crawling on the floor.

I keep telling myself he's just an average two year old, just a bit more active than I'm used to but I do have a niggle that maybe something is not quite right (I hope I'm wrong and he'll just grow out of it!)

My average working week is 52 hours and that's excluding paperwork which I try and do in the evenings. Just spent the entire bank holiday getting my accounts up to date so maybe I'm just too tired to deal with this effectively at the moment!!! Must try harder!!!!! I have such respect for fellow childminders

Not a childminder but mum to a little boy who pretty much fits your description. God, how do you do it? I find it a struggle with just my boy and my 4 year old DD - I have NO idea how I'd manage with other children to look after as well !!!

Sorry, absolutely no help but just wanted to sympathise.

The one thing that has struck me is the lack of eye contact. That's something that would concern me. Does he look at you all? Does he make eye contact with anyone? If not, I think you could be right to be concerned.

With Tanith on the eye contact, does he look at you at other times ie when hes asking a question etc or is it just when hes being told off IUSWIM?
Is there eye contact with mum/dad etc at drop off/pick up time?
With any other adults at playgroup?

Hi again,

He does make eye contact sometimes and it's only ever very briefly, but never when he knows he has been up to something he shouldn't have! I'm going to keep an eye on it (excuse the pun!!!) and see how much eye contact he makes with me and other adults / children.

Thanks all

Sounds like he needs to be outside and not just going to playgroups, but running in woods,climbing trees, forest school sounds perfect for him. Try to vary what you do especially now he has dropped his afternoon sleep, he still needs a rest but perhaps go for a walk in the buggy after lunch, lots of different environments will stop him getting bored.
Try not to focus on the fact you are concerned that he may have an additional need but try to find activities that keep him occupied, slides and climbing frames are fine but the play value are limited, you could get him to help set up an obstacle course, throwing bean bags into hoops and buckets, crawling under sheets etc, he can make up the rules as he is still young, let him explore with materials you give him, its amazing what you can turn a climbing frame into with sheets and pegs and using emergency blankets you can have a spaceship, try to fire his imagination and he will be less likely to be destructive.
Personally I hate the idea of time out but in a travel cot I hate it even more, try distraction first.
You have him 4 days a week do you think he may be a bit bored.

Just dropped in on this thread, but what jumped out at me was your statement that play group every morning = physical exercise. I wouldn't say that it does at all. Outside in the garden, walks or parks are exercise. Playgroups every morning are mentally tiring, but not especially physical IMO. in fact, if mine went to playgroups every day I think they would be nightmares! Overtired from the noise, with no chance to be quiet and focus...

Hmm he does sound a lot like my ds1 when he was younger. How is he with gestures such as pointing and how's his language development? I know very little about SN but my son is now 8 and is currently being assessed by integrated therapy services, I think quite likely ASD or dyspraxia or similar. Maybe worth searching symptoms of these sorts of disorders?
It could well be just normal 2yo behaviour but I so wish someone had raised concerns about my DS when he was younger. I think I was too close to realise, I knew he always needed a very unique approach but I had very limited understanding of SN based around a lot of preconceptions (it can't be autism because he loves cuddles, it can't be ADHD as sometimes he will persist at an activity for 20mins plus just trying to get the blocks exactly how he wants them (which actually could link back to the ASD), forgetting about just ADD). But I'm now left with a rather depressed 8yo coming to the end of year 4 and desperately trying to fit in and cope with school. As a parent I'd much rather someone flagged up concerns that were looked into and found to be nothing than not do anything and it is an issue and the child is left to struggle for years.

I do sympathise though, ds1 was utterly exhausting and I just had him and 5 yo dd. When I got pg again and found out I was having another boy I was really quite scared, ds1 was just approaching school age and starting to become a little easier, I really didn't think I could cope with going through it all again! I have 2 more boys now (5 and 11 months) and both are active, inquisitive and challenging but neither of them come close to the whirlwind of destruction and chaos that was ds1!

Im not sure about the time out thing, it could be that being placed in a travel cot is counterproductive and just increases his frustration and anger. With my mindees I sit them on the sofa for a few minutes and ask them to calm themselves down and think about why they are there and then talk to them about it - it gives them that time out and takes them away from playing with the others but without such a feeling of being punished/ostracised. With younger children I sit down with them and it's really just a couple of minutes of enforced quiet time to remove them from the situation.

Other things I did when ds1 was little was remove EVERYTHING I didn't want him to have from the room, my health visitor told me off and said if you don't leave things there then how will he ever learn, but he wasn't learning I was just telling him off continually all day and we were both becoming more and more stressed and frustrated. And you know what? He's currently sat in the living room unsupervised and there's a glass on the mantelpiece but he's not climbing the furniture to get to it so I guess he did learn at some point!
I always lowered my expectations of acceptable behaviour, dd was very well behaved so I could have lots of rules about what she could and couldn't do but with DS this meant just continually telling him off again so I had to reasses what was really important and let the other things go, it led to both of us being much happier and more relaxed.

Sorry to have gone on so much, have just been filling out a questionnaire for his SALT so this all uppermost in my mind at the moment