Hired or Fired? Nanny candidates...

[WhatTheWhat]

We have two possible nanny candidates, are they Hired or Fired, in your view?

Job is looking after little boy twins (1 yr) sole charge three days and shared care of the twins plus older sister (3yrs) on two days. Total hours 60. Salary is at the top of the local range. Position is live-in or live-out, but no change to salary either way. Must be able to cook. Nursery duties only. We'd like our nanny to stay with us for several years.

Candidate One: energetic, seems keen on the job, wants to move to our area to be near family, has held two long-term jobs, great references, wants 'at least' the top of our salary band, wants the hours to be reduced to 50 per week, isn't entirely happy with the shared care element, it's not entirely clear whether she can cook - the thing she made at interview was pretty vile, but who knows whether that's usual, seemed to be good at playing with the kids.

Candidate Two: mature candidate, has experience with twins, really keen on the job, happy with the salary, happy with the hours, not yet sure if she can cook as awaiting final interview, happy to live-in and rent out her place, happy to work on a shared care basis, not very sparky and seemed more of a 'soft-play' kind of nanny than a 'finger painting at home' nanny. Although she said she really wants to work closer to home, the agency has said she's not the type to job-hop. Great references and one long-term post. Currently unemployed and working in a hotel.

So: Hired or Fired?

Because you can't do it by measuring things out. It's cooking science, it varies a little every time you make it. It needs concentration, it may need to be redone if the rhue (is that how it's spelt) does not form to the chefs satisfaction, or gets burnt.
It's something that sounds easy to make, uses few ingredients (even fewer if just a white sauce) yet can be hard to make. It takes a short time. Cheese sauce is also part of several dishes that children will often eat.

Making a sauce is also something that some parents may teach their children to do at age 10-16.

If the nanny is not from the UK, then I suspect there are other sauces that they have learnt to make - anyone able to confirm that in other countries there is a type of sauce that is quick (10 mins) to make?

i agree with nick, cheese sauce would be an excellent "test", for all the reasons he has mentioned

Béchamel is fairly standard internationally and a good test of cooking ability so the cheese sauce without cheese works!

What would you say to microwaved rather than on the hob, nick?

They're both British, but No1 is currently living overseas with her current family and is desperate to move back to the UK - hence my fear that we're effectively her springboard to a shorter-hours local job. We're offering live-in, which makes the move far, far easier for her.
She knew about the hours and it's advertised as 7-7, she said initially that she was working 75 hours at the moment so 60 would be fewer. But then she has kept returning to the question of whether we'd reduce her hours. She also wanted to know if we'd reduce them if she switched to live-out. Not sure if she meant she'd do fewer hours for the same salary.
I am impressed that No2 has got herself a job, even if it's not what she wants to be doing. The more I think about it, the more No2 seems the better candidate.
Regarding choosing neither, I don't have much time left now - I am currently on mat leave and we've been looking on and off since February. We're bumped it up in mid-April, but have only really had these two candidates as proper possibles. They all currently coming through agencies as I have given up on searching/advertising it myself.
Incidentally, Candidate No3 (the outrider) has 4 offences on her CRB - but all related to driving her parents' car without consent when she was younger, and crashing it. She's got TWOK, causing damage to property with a motor vehicle and driving without a licence or insurance. I thought 'no' to her as it shows a serious lack of judgement, albeit a long time ago (about 10 years ago) and our position is very very young children. Her current job is with kids around 10/12.
Cooking - I usually ask our prospective nanny to do some cooking at the 'final' interview as it's such an important part of the job. I ask her to play with the kids and make them a meal - ie what she will be doing every day. It tests cooking ability and also time-planning, which is very important with three to look after. Bear in mind this will be after we've had a telephone conversation and a first short interview, so it's not like they rock up never having even met us before and are asked to prepare a banquet.

Might well go for the cheese sauce option. I usually pick out a pasta recipe from one of the Annabel Karmel books as my oldest will usually hoover up pasta in any form.

Oh and No1 and 2 are both qualified, clean CRB and insured.

Number 2 coming over for final interview then?

Frak - I've never tried doing it in a microwave. Whatever method works for them, I say.

Tbh I wouldn't be bothered by the offences on the CRB for the third candidate. They were a long time ago and if she was under 22 or so I'd put it down to youthful misjudgement.

More important for me, would be twin experience and flexibility. But I know many of my friends would be horrified at the prospect of even considering anything other than a clean crb.

I agree the no 1. is sounding worse the more you post!

I agree. The 4 offences could all have been from one incidence - couldn't they? Whilst it was not a clever thing to do, you don't know the circumstances and it may be wise to ask about the circumstances before writing them off completely.

Her current job however is with older children, so depending on her past experience she may not be used to toddlers. Is she interviewable based on her CV, rather than her CRB check?

Having had a serious accident with serious consequences, she may well be a good driver these days as she is aware of what can happen if she drives too fast, or without full control.

Would you be providing a car with the job, or would the nanny provide their own, or not need a car?

Did you get candidates from both agencies? I only ask as one of the agencies says Mothers Help in the job title and also gives the hours as 30 per week although in the main job description it clearly states 7-7 Mon - Fri but some nannies may have missed the ad if they'd put Nanny in the filter. ( I live fairly locally to you and had seen the ad. )

I would be wary of someone who had issues regarding to their driving but as Nanny Nick said, they may well have learnt their lesson the hard way and be far more cautious now. If they had relevant experience then I would at least chase up references in regards to the driving.

Mosman that sounds horrendous but not something that is likely to happen often

I didn't think it was likely to happen to me either.
Trust your instincts and if it doesn't feel 110% right then it isn't IMO

Nannynick, could you please tell me about the cheese sauce challenge? I can't make it and would love to learn it. :-)

@Ebb - blimmin' agencies. We're using two beginning with T and one beginning with N. I will speak with them all on Monday. Having said that, one of our friends/neighbours with exactly the same set-up and number of kids is also advertising at the moment and they DO want a Mother's Help, so it might possibly not be us.
@NannyNick - where we live you don't need a car - everything is within reach or public-transport-able. However, we would probably insure her on our (large) car.
Number 2 is doing her second interview (the meet-the-kids one) later this week. The 4 convictions were definitely all from the same instance. We have interviewed her (the agency didn't mention her CRB and it was quite an awkward moment in the interview when it came up as I was not prepared - have only ever seen completely clean CRBs before!) and she was nice, but not 'wow' and we're also concerned about the lack of recent little child experience.
@Mosman - I have to say, having started off really positive, I am getting more and more 'niggly' about number 1. Number 2 is starting to have more green boards in the audience I think.

NannyNick - the mystical cheese sauce to which you refer is surely the simple roux plus cheese, right?

Yes, the simple roux plus cheese. So easy and quick to make for anyone who can cook from scratch.

Is it a fair test, I'm not sure but if you are to evaluate a nannies cooking how are you going to do it? You need them to make something which does not take too long and which isn't too hard. I suppose you could ask them to bake a cake but it can take time to get to know a particular oven, not all are at the temperature they say they are!

BornToShop - If you need a recipe with method, try this one.

I've never had a parent ask me to do any cooking as part of an interview but there is no reason why you couldn't ask someone to do something, as if they say they can cook you need to be able to evaluate that somehow. What other things could a nanny cook at an interview?

Alternatively large dab of butter, big splodge of flour, microwave for 30s and mix into a smooth paste. Add milk slowly and keep stirring so you don't get lumps, microwave again for 2mins, stir thoroughly, microwave a bit more, stir again, repeat until desired consistency is achieved. If too thick simply add more milk.

An agency didn't advise you about the CRB check issues either DIDN'T ask to see it before they sent it to you - which is a shocker - or was being negligent not raising it with you first and getting to the bottom of the circumstances.

FIRED, end of.

Definitely no.2 if you have to choose between just those two candidates. No.1 sounds unpleasantly entitled and fussy.

But I'd probably keep looking.

Frack - is making a roux a reasonable test, or is there something else a nanny could make to show some basic level of cooking skills?

I think it's fairly reasonable because a white sauce is actually quite challenging BUT it doesn't say whether they can cook meat thoroughly or indeed not overcook vegetables.

It depends what you mean by cooking skills though. If you can make a good white sauce you probably can be taught to cook anything, as you said, whether you do it by following a recipe or the more trial-and-error way. Plus you know they can then cook at least 5 meals, even if every single one does contain white sauce.

Next time I may ask for cauliflower cheese...veg plus the cheese sauce test.

We have a sauce whisk. Makes making a lump-free roux a bit of a doddle. So not that much of a test in my book. But it's not intended to be Masterchef - it's just to see if they can actually cook something broadly tasty. People tend to say they can, when they can't really. And references are useless for this - parents often don't know what's been put in front of their kids!
I would never ask anyone to make a cake at an interview, far too unpredictable when you don't know the oven. It's always a simple pasta plus sauce. My dream candidate, as far as cooking goes, would be someone who made the pasta and also did some carrot/cucumber sticks or prepared some nice fruit salad for pudding. No-one has ever done this so far.